#166 - Joseph "Apache Joe" Proctor

0:12 Welcome YouTube and Twitchers welcome. YouTube and twitchers. I always look at the upload percentage when I first start to see if my internet's being wacky or not. Yeah.

0:58 What's up there, boys and girls? This is Chris and Mike. Sure. I'm Chris. He's Mike. And this is Joe Apache. Joe coming on the show today, talking, going to talk about all kinds of fun things from from running to health to fitness to recovery. He's he's he and I kind of live in the same neck of the woods in the East Valley, which is kind of cool. We met in a Facebook group dedicated to fellow fathers. So we pulled them on the show because why not? How are you, Joe? Well, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me guys. You are very. Welcome, man. So let's now, so I, I kind of just kind of pointed out who you are. So let's talk a little bit about what got you in to, you know, all the things fitness related and health related, because there's always a reason why somebody goes down that path, especially when you're as disciplined as it in it as you are.

1:44 Like myself. I did it because when I stopped drinking, I needed I needed something else to fulfill that addictive personality. So it just was a natural progression to turn into working out. And then, you know, 20 years later, here we sit or here I sit. Hey, hey, Mikey, we have a we have a long time listening. It always pops on our show. Mikey, the Mikey Castillo did. So he just chimed in and said hello. So saying hello back. Go ahead, Joey, introduce yourself. Give us a little bit of a background, who you are, what you're all about. And you know, we don't need to talk about your CIA stuff and your you bet your Blackwater special OPS business thing that you do. We'll just keep that hush hush. Don't tell us where the bodies are buried. No. So my name's Joe and I grew up in a town east of here called Apache Junction. That's how I got the nickname of Apache Joe. I ran.

2:30 That's where my first band practiced. No way where at. That's go ahead, Mike. I'm trying to remember what Rd. I turned off out there. It was a he lived in a trailer Park Community out there. I think it was an over 55. Oh, yeah, there's a bunch of them. I was a banker out in Apache Junction for a while, and my clientele was a lot of retired folks. Most of them were retired. Yeah, yeah. See, I, I lived out there. Interesting. Go ahead. Go. No go. Ahead I was going to say yeah, I, I lived there until I ran track in high school and and for my freshman year of college and I decided to start drinking. Turns out I was really good at drinking. So I like really good at that. And the worst part was I didn't I didn't have hangovers and I wasn't like a jerk and I drank so like afterwards people would be like, Joe, that was the most amazing night ever We had so much fun. It was like, yeah, it was great let's do it again. And I did for a lot of years.

3:25 So and then I, I, I got married and we had our, we had our first kid. We did a home birth and I thought I would be a really good dad. Yeah, we did a home birth on all of our brats, so. So, so, so stop there. Yeah. How does the home birth think? How does, how does the home birthday play out? Because you can't. There's no epidural, right? Dude, there's nothing. There's absolutely nothing. There's there's a crunchy granola lady sitting next to your wife going, you've got this. You've like that's all they're in and there's a tub of water and that's it. Like it's. Like it's 1832 again. Yeah, so there was a movie, there's a documentary called The Business of being Born. And I watched this with my wife and it's all about hospitals and Western medicine and how whatever, right, I'm going to get too into it.

4:09 And my my wife goes, Oh my gosh, that's, that's what I want to do. And so we decided to go to the home birth route and we're, we're about 13 hours in of like very hard labor. Like, she is like in a rough place. I'm like, oh, my God, what have I done to my wife? Like I thought I was the worst husband ever because I'm just sitting there like, you're doing good, honey. And then afterwards when when our son was born, I was like, are you OK? And she's like, I wouldn't have done it any other way. And then we did two more kids that way. It was. Yeah, yeah. So with with with traditional like when women have babies in general, like the first was always the hardest. My wife's had two. So was it the same with with you guys? The second third, a lot easier. Yeah, So the second was much easier.

4:50 The third was more difficult. The baby was still in its sack when it was being born, so it didn't come out as easily. It was the IT wasn't like an easy, easy labor, but it was a, you know, it was a safe enough birth, but it was like all all of them were all of more heart than I thought it was going to be. It was kind of crazy, but she did. She did great. Let me ask you this, Joe, just because that's what we do here and now. We went down this road. Yeah. Is the midwife the only legal ramification? You know, what's the legalities of doing it at home? Oh yeah, so you have to be healthy. So if he goes the midwife route, you can get a doula, which is like a cheering coach for you alongside the midwife. The midwife's usually got some medical degrees, whether it's a nurse or whatever, but you have to be healthy enough. You have to be within a certain age group and a certain weight limit.

5:41 You can't be, you know, there's, there's got to be all these boxes you can check off. And if, if everything goes well, yeah, it's when, when my brother, when my brother got pregnant, when you got his girl pregnant years ago, the first thing I thought of was he didn't have health insurance. He wasn't in the best part of, you know, best place of life. And I thought, how's he going to have this baby? And I thought, wait, we've been having babies for a long time. Like, humans have been doing this thing for a while. Like, I'm sure she'll, she'll figure it out. And it's, yeah, it's, it's pretty cool. Well, that's what just sparked my curiosity. So if you and your wife just wanted to do it by yourselves, is that legal or no? I don't know, but my my new favorite phrase, my new favorite phrase, I like to say is what kind of American would I be if I asked for permission?

6:27 I'm joking. I wouldn't do this with the kid, right? Like that's just a Amen. I love that. Yeah. So this came this came this this came to mind when you were sharing your story about the person on in the background. You know, do it you. Can do it. You can do it. Yeah, you can. Do it. Yeah, that was me. That was the whole. Time you can do it. You can do it, you can do it. Sorry for that. I couldn't do it fast enough when you're telling the story. But that's the first thing that popped my mind because my wife was giving birth to to both our kids.

7:08 I'm was I was sitting looking at the wall and and I'm sorry. So she's she's birthing that way. I'm this way now. I got the hand. I'm like, you're good, babe. You're good, babe. Because I didn't want to see it. I had no, I had no desire to watch my children pop out of the canal, man. Yeah. I'm like, I'm good. I'm good. I. Was the one that I caught him. Oh. God. Yeah, I know. Really. First row C, dude. Yeah. And so my second one, my daughter, who was the easy one, she came out and as she came out, I couldn't pull her out because there was a cord wrapped around her neck. And I thought, OK, I'll just take this cord. And we're we're doing a water birth, so I can't pull her out of the water.

7:51 I have to keep her in the water. And so I'm like, OK, I'll just unwrap this cord. This cord is wrapped. I couldn't even get my finger under this cord. And I didn't want a lawn mower, my wife to death and RIP this kid out. So I was like, I don't know what to do. That's when the midwives jumped in and took care of it and everything was fine. So luckily, luckily, the midwives, you know, were there. But it was, yeah, kind of a spooky scenario. Yeah, yeah. See my spooky scenario after our daughter was born, I left to tell everybody, hey, you know, and I came back in and open the door of the room and she's still exposed. But it's it's it's just flowing blood. She she was bleeding out. And I'm like, oh, fuck. That night turn went right to the bathroom. They had they had they grab sky, put her in an incubator. She's gone.

8:36 Which we didn't realize it was a traumatic birth at all, right? So finally they one of the nurse comes, gets me. She's like, you can come out of the bathroom now. I was like, I don't need to see that. I'm like, I'm good, you know? And then she explains what's going on and she had she hemorrhaged or something. But then they fixed it. And so did all, you know, all good. But yeah, when you're 25 years old, I think right to come around the corner and this super high thing, whoa, I just had a baby. Prepared for that. Oh my God, it's just nothing. I mean, literally, I'm, I'm not kidding, everywhere in your mind. Oh God, it took forever for me to to come back to that. You know, how do I say this delicately? To engage in one of those those things you do with your spouse, you know.

9:24 In a positive. Manner S it. It took me a while to like get OK, you know, but yeah, that so I can't imagine home bursting man. That would be freaky, especially what you just said about your daughter in the court. And yeah, that's you know, I don't. Kudos to you man. I couldn't do it. I can't even watch that stuff on TV. I'm just not built like that. Yeah, it was it. Was I have to look away. Even when it's on television, I can't. The only reason my wife and I did it is because there was no other option like my wife. Like people always say oh I would have taken all the drugs I could and my wife said so would I if they were offered to me like we were at home. Like the only reason I didn't take an epidural is because no one was there to give it to me so. Right, so so hindsight. 2020 she would have at least won an epidural. No, no.

10:10 So the epidural takes away a lot of stuff. There's this crazy high that happens after a woman gives birth that I didn't know about. And if you're not, if you're not doped up or, you know, loaded up with drugs, you don't feel it. So a lot like if you're out in the wild and you give birth, you're not going to lay down for three days and be worthless. You have to continue to live, right. So my wife was up for a day and 1/2 for like on all three of our kids after she gave birth. She was, she wasn't moving around, but she was awake. She was like, she had this crazy, she was crying. She was happy. She was, she was high as a kite. And it was like the midwife said, yeah, this is this is what happens when you don't do it in the hospital. You get this crazy rush of, you know, some chemicals or whatever.

10:50 Endorphins dope me kind of like after you, after you, you, you hit your target, you set out to run a mile under 6 minutes and you hit it and it's just. Like I could do anything. Yeah, your body just dumps those chemicals naturally. Yeah, Yeah. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. OK, well, so just all just a tub in the living room and. And open your legs. Honey, we're gonna have a baby. Yeah. Right. Yeah, it was funny on the last one. She was, she was in labor for so long. And she was like, well, this is it. And she looked at the midwife and she's like, OK, I tried. The midwife's like, yeah, you're not done. You don't get to just say I'm done. Like this is you have to keep going. So the midwife says, we'll be in the living room waiting for you. And he's like, Oh my gosh.

11:32 Oh. Yeah, wow. So how long, how long, how long? How long was the third one labor wise? The third, so the labor wise on the third one was also about 1314 hours. But the funny, the second one, when my wife's water broke, she didn't immediately go into labor. And usually when your water breaks, you go to the hospital, right? And right when you go to the hospital, the first thing the doctor does is check the wife to see how dilated she is. And the second you check your wife, you've you've breached that entry. And once you breach that entry, the the hospital has 24 hours. We ought to get this kid out in 24 hours. That's a deadline, right? So we didn't breach anything. We just knew her water broke. So my midwife says, well, go for a walk, go on a date, go whatever.

12:15 I took the next day off of work and we're sitting around waiting for this day to show up. Nothing. I had to go back to work the next day because my job didn't give me maternity leave at that time. I had to go back to work the next day. And I'm at my office going, like, is my wife going to have this kid or not? Finally that evening when I came home, she goes, OK, I think we're going to have a kid. And it was like on the third day after her water broke, it was the kid showed up. Wow. Wow, that's amazing, man. Yeah, that's yeah. Exercise is a funny thing because we did that with Sky Sky's. She broke water with Sky and she wasn't, she was like 2% dilated and like 12% of faced. It was stupid. So we went walking around the hospital and yeah, yeah, there's yeah.

12:57 Get on a trampoline, get it out quicker, Yeah. That's a TikTok video. So now that we've opened up the world of we've opened the world of birthing. So let's let's take from there. So we were and I was kind of the same way when I was drinking too Joe, just so you know, I never really had hangovers. I was never really a jerk. I was a functional alcoholic. So I, I always thought I was a life of the party that, you know, my wife has different opinions to that, which is fine, but that was my thing too. I'd I never had a hangover. I never woke up, you know, I woke up a few times, you know, probably a dozen times over the years of like what I do last night. But it wasn't. It wasn't.

13:38 I feel like hangover. I never felt right it right. It is because we had a guy on the show a while back that he was an alcoholic too and, and he's recently been sober, but he's like every time you get hammered and drunk, you're, you're, you're taking away the next day you're. Like you're robbing from tomorrow. You're robbing from tomorrow. That's a good job, Mike. Way to pull that out, Rob. Which I thought was brilliant because I never looked at it that way. But you absolutely are robbing from tomorrow. That's why I have a hangover. It was brilliant. Yeah, because you're not going to, you're not going to function the next day if you've drank so much that you were, you know, blackout drunk. So take take us down the path of of, you know, a little bit of your your alcohol fun and let you just stop and how. I really, I really liked alcohol. It was, I was good at it.

14:23 And I remember there was a time in my 20s where I just took a a quick break. I thought, am I, am I drinking too much? My dad was an alcoholic. He drank a 12 pack every day. He was like an everyday thing, but and he never, I never knew when he was drunk. He was just always drinking beer and that's that's what he did. But I remember I took a break from drinking and I told my buddy who I just met after I stopped drinking, I told my buddy all these crazy drink, you know, drunk stories and he goes, man, I feel like I just missed the fun Joe. I was like, oh man, that sucks. I don't want to hear that so, but no, I so I started drinking again when I moved, I moved back to Arizona and from Colorado. And when I moved back, I started hanging out with my old buddies and I was drinking and it was life of the party again. And then my first son showed up and I wasn't drinking as much. Things had changed, but it was, I still felt I was, I was on head meds.

15:13 It was like I didn't, I was very depressed. I wasn't I wasn't just wanting life to get better. I just want it to be over. It was like I was counting down for for time to get done. It was like, and it was this crappy. I didn't I didn't fantasize about it, but I had suicidal thoughts that just played in the back of my head like like elevator music, like it's all I thought about. And I wasn't yeah, and yes, it was like wherever I went, I knew how I could end it. If I go here, there's a tall building. If I go home, I have a firearm. If I yeah, there was like if I'm driving, I can like it was. And I don't know why this was, but for 10 years, my yeah, for 10 years, my wife harped on me about food. She goes, you know, food might be the reason why you're so depressed.

15:57 I know you've been on these head meds and I know you're seeing the the shrinks and the psychiatrist and everyone they're giving you the medicine, but maybe it's food. But my wife's not a doctor. And so I didn't listen to her for 10 years and then we never. Listen to our wives. Yeah, I know. Until we have to. Yeah. And then when my youngest son showed up and he started eating solid foods as a little guy, we found out he was celiac. So we had to get rid of gluten. And gluten is in everything that tastes good. Everything. Everything. Like everything. So I I used to eat cereal nonstop. Like cereal was my my staple. So I, I couldn't, I couldn't have, I had gluten in the house and I wasn't going to be that guy.

16:37 That was like, there's daddy's food, there's the kids food, right? Like if it's, if the kids are being healthy, daddy needs to be healthy. And it was after six months of eating gluten free and being a real, real asshole to my wife, like I was, I wasn't purposely being mean, but it was like I remember saying, I remember saying, I used to say stuff like, well, I guess I'll just go to sleep so I can dream about the stuff that I like to do. All right, I was like, what the hell are you talking about? There was like after six months of not eating gluten, I started to wean myself off of the head meds and started to like join a gym and and started to get healthy. And I was like, wow, maybe, maybe food was the reason she was. Maybe she was right. Yeah, it's crazy, right? Yeah.

17:18 It's crazy how much food we learned. We learned a lot about the food and what you eat. When we had a guy named Nate Palmer on the show, a physical health guru and there was like breads, you know, and Whole Foods and stuff. Like I always knew about that kind of thing, but I didn't really understand it. So when we had Nate on, it's like, holy shit, that's amazing. So we had stopped Nikki and I had stopped doing the breads for a while, probably about a month or so, just to see the dynamic of the change with it and it and still to the to this day, we're not heavy into the breads anymore. I still, I still do burritos, homemade burritos and stuff from time to time. My daughter makes some fantastic tortillas, but for the most part I'm it's not a daily occurrence with tons of bread and and because it it the the way it makes you feel is crazy. I had.

18:03 No idea. Realize, right? That's what I'm saying. You don't realize what is doing to your body until you stop. Yeah, and just like not having a hangover. I was never overweight, so I never thought food was my issue. I was like, well, I'm not a fat guy. Food's fine, right? I can eat whatever. I can eat whatever I want. I used to say that shit all the time. Well, I think to Chris's point, we done, we didn't understand for a long time. And to your point, that the food we were putting in our body is what was causing the inflammation. Yeah. It wasn't that we were overdoing. You know, in some cases, sure, you're overdoing it, especially for you guys. You know, when you work out too much, you know, when you pushed it too hard.

18:44 But you would have never dreamed in a million years until the last probably 5 or 10 years, when science caught up with medicine, right, that food was actually causing these problems. I've dealt with dietary restrictions my entire life. I'm allergic to dairy. My mom's allergic to seafood. She's allergic to nuts. You know, we have to be super careful when we go out to eat. Or, you know, to your point, at the grocery store, you got to read every label. Yeah. You find out what is in what when you can't have a certain thing. And gluten is way worse than any of the two that I just mentioned. Or three. Yeah, and we didn't do the, we didn't just slowly wean all the gluten out of our out of our pantry.

19:24 We went through with like a a garbage can was like got rid of everything. And the whole time I'm in the back, I'm like, no, like my cereal. I've got a box. I've got a box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch in my car that I got as a gift five years ago from a buddy. And I leave in the back of my car just in case the apocalypse ever shows up. But like, I look at it and I remind myself, you're not allowed to eat that crap. Well, you said it, Joe, gluten is in everything. It's just you people have no idea until, like you said, somebody stands in front of you and says you can't have gluten anymore. Now you're going through the grocery store and it's like. Christ, I can't have anything. Yeah, it's crazy. Thank you. Yeah, well, and that goes back to, I'm sure you've seen the pictures online that surface every now and then like a, a beach scene in 1970, right?

20:14 Right. Yeah. And everybody's, everybody's, everybody's leaning to fit. Just saw. And there's, there's, right. And they're not, they're, they're, you don't really see the overweightness. You don't see the obesity at all. It's just leaning fit. I mean, you're not, they're not supermodels, male or female, but they're not, they don't have the spare tires. They don't have the extra baggage. But the food was so much cleaner back then. Yeah, and that goes back to Nate's point. When he was on there, we didn't have all that processed food. Right then, right. Everything is just super processed now. Mm hmm. Yeah, the food, the food I eat now is super simple and I, I know a lot of people wouldn't like it, but it's like, I'll make a like a bowl of ground beef and I'll put honey in it and that'll be my breakfast like, or, or bacon and eggs.

20:55 Like it's yeah, like it's like super simple. And at 1st, at first I still craved McDonald's. I still craved the garbage food. Like I still knew that, but it was after a long enough time now, like I know if I had a Big Mac, I would my endorphin, I would go bananas, right? It would, it would taste amazing, but I don't, I don't let myself do that. But after a a while of not eating it, now I'm craving a bowl of ground beef. Now I'm craving just a a plate of bacon. That's it. Like it's I. I think it's just rewired your brain. Yes to to. Say that that's pleasure. Now that's your pleasure center. But that takes a while, I think, Chris. 'S side. It wasn't an overnight sort of thing. What? Is. It 90 days 1000 times right Reprogram a habit, right?

21:40 Right. So, so I'm going to have to try the ground beef and and honey. That's interesting. I've never heard of that. Because I, I, I, I could tell you my diet and you'd be like every day. I'm like every day except for dinner. I might, Nikki used to hate it from when we, when I first started it, but I'm like, I'm the easiest person in the world to shop for when we go shopping. It's like, I need this. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, we have that in common. I'm pretty much a creature of habit because I I can't have a lot of things right. So let's go back to your drinking Apache Joe. So if you're the life of the party, come back to Arizona. And I had the same thing when I stopped drinking, man. All my friends like whatever, man, it's not going to take you're you're just going to stop for a while and then because.

22:20 Secretly, everyone wants you to fail. And then, you know, ironically enough, I don't, I don't really have any of those friends in my life anymore. I had to hang out for a. While but then yeah, that's right. And yeah, but yeah, so go ahead, continue that that path because that was that was interesting. Yeah, so it was, it was actually once, once the food changed and I I found the gym, my son came home from jiu jitsu practice and I hadn't run in 23 years at this point. I had, I had been working out, but it was I wasn't a nut. And my son came home from jiu jitsu practice and he said, my coach said, if I want to be better than others, I have to train harder than others. And I said, oh, I like that.

23:01 And he said, will you go run with me? And I said, oh man, yeah, I guess so. We, yeah, I, I didn't have a leg to stand. Like I didn't know why to say no. And I said. Yeah, sure, because you can't say no to your son. I know. Yeah. We went, we went for a run and it was like after that run, it wasn't easy, but I I kept, I kept doing it. And then I, I started, I went out and got a pair of running shoes and kind of went, I went, I went downhill from there or uphill. I don't know what you must say. Yeah. That's awesome. So, so once, once you, you got the you got the food. So once you got the food, you got the you. You weaned yourself off the off the head meds. The head meds and the next big thing. Yeah. The next big thing was nose breathing, which sounds silly, but it was nose breathing. I've been watching you.

23:47 I've been watching that. You do that on Facebook, Dude, that freaks me out because I have asthma. So I've. Yeah. Same here. I've I've I used to have asthma. Really. Yes, OK, OK. So. This is unfortunately. This is for me. This is for me. And I, I might still do. I don't say I will anymore, right? I'm, I tell myself I'm cured. I tell myself with my depression and my anxiety, I'm cured. I was never broken. I might have been lied to and just maybe tricked that I was I had asthma or tricked that I had depression. Maybe I just believed it. I don't know. But when I got into nose breathing, I read this book called Breath, and it was all about just nose breathing and different, different cultures and how, like, nose breathing was a big deal, even like a lot of Native Americans, when, when the babies will sleep, they'll hold the mouth of the baby's clothes just so they'll breathe through their nose. Yeah.

24:38 Which I thought was, I thought was kind of crazy. Yeah, so I went for, I was supposed to meet up for my very first group run. It was out at San Tan Mountain and I was supposed to meet up with this huge group run. I was super excited. I was like, OK, I'm healthy enough to run with these other people. Like I'm I'm ready to go and I show up to the wrong place and it's just me and I'm pissed off and I'm upset and I said all right, I'm going to do this crazy nose breathing thing and I'm out running by my. Side of the mountain did did did you show up on the wrong side of the mountain? Yes, so I was supposed to show up on the 1st. Time I went outside first time? Yep, Yep, Yep. First time I went to Santander to do the same thing. Yep. Yeah, so I'm out there running by myself and I'm kind of pissed off that I'm doing this. And what I will do is I would nose breathe for 5 minutes as I'm jogging and it would. I wouldn't run fast, but it would. Be.

25:25 After, after the first, I would say 5 minutes of it, there's this crazy rush of like fear, you know that where you can't get that satisfying that last breath to make you feel like I can breathe as you're running, you're doing that. It feels like you're about to die. But if you can continue to keep like keep your mouth shut and keep nose breeding, all of a sudden you'll get this rush of like something and instantly you're like, whoa, I'm a good father. Like I'm a great husband, I'm a good son. Like big things happen. So I would, I would run and I would like do this nose breeding thing. And then once I did it for about 5 minutes I would I would breathe for one minute just as fast as and hard as I could. And then at the end of that I would scream everything out. I would hold my breath, I would Sprint as fast as I could and I would be holding my breath as while I'm sprinting and while I'm sprinting, my vision starts doing this like it just starts shrinking down and I can see less and less your vision. Yes, like I'm, I'm holding my breath. I'm I'm my, my fingers are numb like my, my head's tingling like, and I'm running while holding my breath and like all of a sudden, like everything starts coming and I'm scared to death.

26:37 It feels like I'm about to die. Finally, at the very end, before I fall over, I take a big inhale and I blurt out whatever the hell is in my is in my mind or in my heart or in whatever. And I blurt out I found myself out here and I lose a crime, right? And I thought, whoa, that was neat. So I do it again. I do it again, right? And I blurt out I'm a good man. Oh my gosh. The last time I do it, I blurt out they'll need a fucking helicopter to find my body when I'm done with it. Whoa, maybe I'll back. Maybe I won't tell the wife that one. Yeah, but crazy runner's high. Crazy runner's highs.

27:18 Really. OK yeah, because I don't, I don't ever really get runners high. I, I, I hear about it every now and then. You know, Nikki and I probably done since 2015 about 100, you know, half, half marathons, you know, trickle in, you know, 65 K 10K things like that. But only a select few times did I actually feel that right. I didn't you know, some people feel it every single time, but I just. And like she gets it all the time. I just, yeah, and I've I've tried, I've tried. I didn't realize that was a science to the breathing thing. I've tried running with just through my nose. I don't I probably didn't do it long enough to actually experience what you experience. So as I get back bent into bed of cardio shape, I'm going to have to start instilling that and see how it how it works with me.

28:03 Because I was wondering, I was wondering what the lung. So when I first got into nose breathing and I found out that I looked up what culture was ran with water in the mouth. And the first thing that popped up was the Apache Indians used to run with water in their mouths, you know, while they would go out running and they used to call themselves spirit runners. And I was like, whoa, like my nickname's Apache Joe. Like this feels very spiritual. This is crazy, right? So I'm telling my buddy this and he goes, you know, the Spartans used to run with water in their mouths for 10 miles and spit it out at the end. I was like, whoa, that's crazy, right? Then the next day, the next day I go, the fuck makes a Spartan better than me, right? I was like, maybe I could do that. Yeah, right here.

28:45 Crazy stuff, right? So for the past two years at the Lost Dutchman Marathon, I've run the Lost Dutchman Marathon with a mouthful of water and spit it out the end so. No shit. That's awesome. I don't know. I don't know what the Guinness Book of World Record is. I have to give them 12 weeks heads up to come out and watch me. I'm going to be doing it again in February. But yeah, I'll take a drink of water, I'll put some tape on. And the last time I was running, I put tape on too. Yeah. So I'll put water in and I'll put tape on and I'll put Apache Joe on it just so because if you run with just water in your mouth and people don't know why you can't talk to them. And you, you look like a psycho, right? So if I have a piece of tape on, you know, OK, here's the reason this guy's not talking to me.

29:29 So. But the, the last time I ran it, I'm running and I hear these two guys behind me during the race going. There's no way anyone could do a whole marathon without drinking water. And I turn around, I've got this tape on my mouth and I go, they're like, oh, that's not a Kachi Joe guy. So you thought so you did the whole marathon with it? Yeah, 26 mile. Fuck, dude. Yeah, that's crazy. I want to do a 50. K yeah, but. Yeah, yeah, 26 miles. Wow. I had heard that about the Spartans. I've never heard that about the Indians. That's. Yeah, I never heard about either, you know, learning, learning. Man, that's crazy. Now you did Now. I definitely wouldn't recommend it on a fast run like I run. I do master track meets.

30:13 I wouldn't be doing any half miles with that. But on the low slow runs, yeah. I love the wild and the mouth. Wow, that's yeah. Wow. Tape. That's extreme, man. Yeah, yeah, it's called. Hostage. So when you're so so when you're done with the full marathon, the first time you did it, you tape it off the tape, you spit out the water. I mean, are you, are you dehydrated? No, no, I, I load up with water beforehand for the week before. I'll usually drink quite a bit of water and salt beforehand. But yeah, it's, I don't want to say I would never recommend people not to run with water, but I do believe we might. We might think we need, I don't want to say we think we need water more than we do.

30:58 But if you look around, everyone's got a water bottle. Everyone's walking around with their giant Stanley full of water. And like, you know, as a kid, we had the hose or we had water fountains. And now my kids see a water fountain. They're like, oh, gross. I won't drink out of water fountain. And so you will if you're thirsty enough. Like if that's the only thing you've got, yes you will. Yep. Yeah, I do. I drink a lot. I don't walk around with Stanley, but I probably drink a gallon of water today. But I've always done that. It's I mean, that's probably the reason why I think I never had hangovers because every time I was drinking, yeah, the 12 to 18 beers in the three or four Sacha Jacks, I would I would have one of these filled up with water, you know, during, during, you know, watching the baseball game. So that was the biggest reason that people I think have hangovers is because they're dehydrated.

31:39 And I just never was, you know? Yeah, yeah, most people are drinking water while they're drinking alcohol. Right, right. I know I was weird like that. And one, I have one other friend that does that in my entire life. Two people, yeah, yeah. I don't know if anyone doing that either. Yeah, that's, you know, Chris, I always had. Water the whole time he was in the band, so I'm a witness to that. And then I have another friend that does the same thing, but in 52 years I've only met two people that do that. Yeah, but he's right. When we went to New York years ago, it's it's because it's, it's, I think it's part of the Arizona climate, right. Because when we were in New York for I think 7 to 10 days, we'd get back to the to the the hotel.

32:20 I'm like, I'm drinking water today or I hadn't, I hadn't aside from like lunch because I don't drink soda. I had never been a big soda drinker. It's just tea and water for the most part. So, but it's, that's a weird little caveat that you don't realize it. Like we, we would walk around New York and Natural Museum, go to all those things and, you know, grab a bottle of water when we're eating lunch. But then aside from that, it's like. We didn't. When did we drink water? So I think it has a lot to do with it. Yeah, I think it has a lot to do with Arizona. For sure, you know. Because I thought you're walking around all day, Mike. But it's hot, you know, And we sweat especially. Dry. Dry as hell, yeah. It's really dry. It's really dry. So we because we, we're, we're all ADHD because we're squirrel in moments here.

33:01 So we, we have your third kid, you, you, you change your, your food takes about six months to clear through that. You get off the head meds. So when do you actually stop drinking? Is is, is is it a specific moment? Like most of us Alcoholics, we have it. OK, this is the thing that turned me. Or was it just like gradually you walked away from it? It was kind of nice. It was, it was kind of gradually less and less in my life. I I would drink it. It was to the point where it was I would only drink on the weekends but it wouldn't even be a lot. My wife was still drinking at the time and when she would drink she would drink a lot. But it was we were at home, we didn't drive anywhere. None of us got belligerent right? But then when we got into this health journey and both of us started started working out and eating right.

33:45 And even though we were drinking less, my wifes like this, there's no beneficial reason for this to be in our life. Like there's, there's no, there's no reason. We have it. So she's like, I'm done with it. I'm like, good for you, good for you. And then it was after like it was like maybe 2 get togethers at the house. I would have like maybe two or three beers. I'm like, I'm not having enough beers to where I'm enjoying this. Like I, in my mind, it's like, let's have a bunch of I'm not like, no, no, no, the kids are here. My wife's not drinking. I can be, I can try and keep it together. And it was after like 2 get togethers with friends. I was like, why am I doing this? Like this makes no sense, but it was so nice to be. It was so far removed from my life at that point. I could just walk away versus I wasn't in the depths of that. I wasn't rock bottom. I wasn't, you know, drink, drink driving, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:28 She, mine was. Mine was a blow up and my wife and I've been together 31 years and it didn't start out alcohol. It took me a while, but we just had a we had a blow up and I woke up the next morning and we never argued. We still don't ever really argue. And I kind of one hand how many times you've argued in 31 years? And she was always right. Yeah, but we had, we had a blow up and I just the next morning I was like, fuck, man, something's got to change. So I googled a A and off I went, you know, but it was, it was. That's interesting. It's cool that you just kind of gradually, because Nikki stopped drinking too as soon as I stopped and we went through our stuff and she stopped drinking at home completely. It makes. It so much easier if both of you do it. Same with the food.

35:10 Same with the food, right? Like if if you got your food and she's got her like it's not going to work. Especially if I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm right in the kitchen, right? Or if I'm drinking like it's not good if it's in the house. Right, No, agreed. I have I have hyperparathyroidism and so I we watch the show on Netflix called What the health. Have you ever seen that? Yeah, it's a good it's a good documentary. What the health like instead of what the fuck replace fuck with health. Yeah, I'm sure somewhere still. But there's a lady on it that had hyperparathyroidism and she went vegan and I'm like, well, I'm going to miss for years. It's dead meat, so why not try it? So Nikki being Nikki, she went on the journey with me, but about 3 months into she's like, oh hell no, I'm not doing this. But.

35:53 But to her credit, she still helped me find things that were vegan and, and because I wanted to do it to see if it kept my calcium levels at Bay, which it did. Ironically, I did it for about 18 months religiously. And then I, I, we were, we were training for her. We're training her to do a full marathon and, and we had a 10 mile run day. And I just, I, you, I felt like after, because you have to eat so much protein, vegan protein. And it's, it's so heavy and it's, it's, you feel like shit. You, you, you you you. You're swollen because of it, which doesn't make sense. I've never seen a vegan that doesn't look. Right, they don't. Realize that they look sick, but yeah, they do.

36:36 Whenever I hear someone say whenever I hear someone say that they're going to do this vegan thing, it usually starts off if they do it for six months to 18 months, it works great. Like it, it, it, it, it almost like does a reset on the body. And then if you go to healthy eating, it works great. But when you see, and I, I don't mean to talk shit about, you know, but when a lot of times when you see vegans that are 5-10 years into it, they, they don't, they don't have the healthiest, they don't look healthy. And I'm with you, Joe. I'm not sitting here talking shit. I told we joke before we got on the podcast. Of course I smoke. I drink a little bit. I do things that aren't good too. But I subscribe to Walt Whitman.

37:18 Everything in moderation, including moderation to say to yourself I cannot do something to me, this is only for me, I'm not I I hate when people make blanket statements but Chris just said it with his condition. His diet is going to require him to be different than me, to be different than you. There is no perfect diet for everyone. So when a vegan says this is the way to live, you're wrong just as much as me saying eating meat is OK too, right? It might not be for Chris, it might not be for Joe, but it might work for Mike, right? I can't have dairy. Dairy might be the best thing for another body, right? You bet. So you're going to your doctor say that we were never intended to eat dairy?

38:04 That's not true either. Every human is different. Yeah, I so I on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday I work from the office and on those days I will drink black iced coffee and I've got a little thing of salt at my desk and I'll take a spoonful of salt whenever I get like, hungry. And so those days I won't eat until I get home and have dinner. Yes. And I'll have dinner. So when I have dinner, it's a big dinner, right. Whether it's hamburger or whatever, but and it's probably about two meals worth. And so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I just do a 24 hour fast, right? And I feel that works out great for me. But I know fasting doesn't work for everyone. It doesn't work for a certain females, right? Like so if someone's asking me diet stuff like well I know it works for me really well, but I I cannot recommend it for everyone.

38:52 I can do it for not that long. I like it for a little bit shorter period of time. I have to eat a little bit a lot of times a day. That's just how my body works, right? I don't overeat, you know? I weigh 154 lbs. I'm not overweight by any means, but I do require like 5 meals a day. They just have to be small. Yeah, you know, I. Don't know what it's on the age that I am fast when I on the days that I fast. At first I was AI don't want to say a mean guy, but I had a little more bite to me and I would go into the office and people would bring in Donuts or I would smell. They would come back from the cafe and I would smell it. Now. Now when I see it or smell it, I feel like a fucking animal. I'm like, yeah, not for me. I don't need that shit, right?

39:34 Like I've got this like sort of mentality. I like that. I'm the same way. I, when I got to the point to where where I turned like like once I had neck surgery and that was done, then I could work out without pain again. We went, we turned, we found Isagenix. So we went down that path and it went from October of that year of 14 to February of, of 15 that I went from like 211 lbs to 168 like high school weight, but I was skinny. I wasn't, I didn't have the muscle mass. So once I got back down that base and it took years to build the muscle and all that kind of stuff, which is cool. But as as we as we evolve from from eating shit like everybody does, you know, at some point in time of life to starting to eat healthy, you definitely say the swing in in your mindset. So to your point being in real estate, Realtors eat like shit, man.

40:27 And all the events are doughnuts and pastries and yeah, right, right, right. So it's the, the, the sugar rush and all kind of pleasure, right? So I had that guy that would walk into my office with a, with a box of Krispy Kreme, a Krispy Kreme doughnut box. They'd open it up and haha, carrots and celery and cucumbers and shit. Because I would just get the box and bring it in the, in the table in the back. And like, you know, they open it up. Like what the fuck is this? That's why I love this guy. But it but it's, it's you got to rewire your brain. Like you said, if, if you went to McDonald's right now, man, you'd be off the hook, right? And little man, my grandson, every now and then I have him for weird spots in the day. He loves chicken Nuggets and stuff. And I could easily just grab 1/4 pounder with cheese. But I don't, I don't do fast food. I don't do junk food.

41:18 We just, it's so far removed from our lifestyle, number one, because it's shitty food, but #2 it's so stupid expensive to eat out now that it's just, it's not even, it's not even a thing. I mean, I make my lunch and take it to work every when I go to the office. Just that's. The one good thing about fasting? Change you have. Be a lazy ass when it comes to making your food because you don't make that much. Right, Yep, right. Yeah, I've done the, I've done the 24 hour fast. I haven't done it like you're doing it on the level of of, you know, three days. So I wanted to ask you about. That that's all I'm doing is a 24 hour fast three days in a row. OK. So on month, yeah, yeah, I haven't done, I haven't done any fast longer than 24. I know it's beneficial. OK. I haven't. I haven't gone there yet, Yeah.

42:01 I did a when we when we first did the Isagenix we did 50. It ended up being 52 hours, but with with with isogenish, when you do, they call it a cleanse. So you're. What is they? Have these little products I don't know how to explain it really it's shake it's shake based like you we we we wake up you have a shake for breakfast and then you just follow this kind of regiment but it's it's. It's it's like a food plan. Protein shake, yeah, yeah. Protein shakes, things like that, vegan, non vegan, whey protein, stuff like that. It's it's it's supplements, for lack of better term. Got you OK. And it worked. I mean it worked really good.

42:42 But my thing is and my problem isn't as part of the addiction, when I see something that works, it's just tunnel vision. That's it. Like I'm not I'm not turning around. I'm not that's it. When I saw that Isagenix had the benefit it had, I kept doing it probably for 2-3 years. And then it just got to the point to where it's like, OK, don't do I willing to keep doing this. Like I need to start building up and muscle mass and things like that. So I, I ended up, you know, weaning off. I still have protein shakes when I get done working out just to have them, you know, but not to the level that I was. But when Isagenix cleanses, they call them cleanses. They would have these little, I don't want to promote them because we're not getting anything out of it, but let's see if I can pull up their website and, and show you.

43:24 It's, it was pretty cool though. I mean, it, it, it legit, it had these weird little things you would take every couple hours. There was a plan that you would do with it and you just follow it. And it's like anything else. If you follow the plan, if you follow what what's laid out in front of you, it works right And but you have. Your health. A lot of people exactly. And a lot of people wouldn't, you know, it's it's a weight loss thing. So it's like a it's it's, it's before Ozimpec became what it is. Ozimpec, however, you say that, but yeah, this kind of stuff. So you have you have your shakes, you have performance proteins, you have the different things that balance your body. You have their natural snacks and things like that.

44:05 It's all this stuff, right? So it promotes health. It was a it was a local guy in Arizona who did it and he kind of came up with it and it obviously he's. Got the big building off the two O 2. Yes, Yep. OK. Yeah, Yeah. That's. Where he actually lives, Yeah, he lives. Or at least he did. He lived on, you know, where Bachelor High School is, obviously. Yeah, yeah. So, so if you take, if you take Val Vista past rigs towards Hunt Highway, there's, there's one of those county island houses. He lived back there at some point in time, giant outside metal structure barn, which was his kind of laboratory where he just started touring around with stuff. And you know, it's, it's, it promotes health, but it promotes health in an, in the most natural way you can is a, because you know, we all know, we've talked about it on the show.

44:57 And I'm sure you have the same type of thing with what you've heard about ozipic and shit. It's a quick fix. It's like you're going to lose massive amounts of weight, but it's like having that surgery, you're going to lose massive amounts of weight. But then what happens then? So back to what you were doing. You're screwed. I was just kind of wondering this is. There was a documentary, I think it was on, I think it was on Netflix, and it was about The Biggest Loser and, and about how people. Did too, yeah. Yeah, that that dude that got his stomach stapled or whatever had the procedure and then had the procedure of getting all the skin removed and then went back to £500. It was heartbreaking. It was like, man, you like now not only is his stomach stretched out even further, his skin stretched out even further. And he, the I, and I remember, I remember in one of his interviews, he goes, there's diets that say you can't eat breakfast.

45:49 What kind of life is that? And I'm like, I, I don't eat breakfast or lunch, but I love my life, right? And I look in the mirror and I go, you're an animal. I love the way you look, right? And I see this guy and it's like my heart breaks form like that's, that's, that's a harvest life. But part of part of and I, I agree because that was it was, it was quite a shock watching that and seeing he's because he's bigger than he ever was on the show. Yeah, yeah. And just sitting there, the way he was sitting there, it's like he's got to be miserable. But I think a lot of it has it's mind. There's something wrong mentally, something happened. Not a lot of it, All of it. Right, Yeah, OK, Yeah, we had, we had a guy on was it Justin Willoughby? Willoughby £600 guy and, and and he dropped when he was 19 years old. He was £600. Now he's he's 1199, 70.

46:33 That's right, he lost. £600. Oh, that's right. That's right. Oh my. Yeah. So. And he had a really good guy. Yeah. Go ahead. He had a doctor, Joe, that volunteered to do that skin removal. Yeah. And I'm not sure if he said it like this, but what I got out of that episode was, and you know, we follow his journey on Instagram and Facebook too. He is so careful to not do what we just described of that documentary. Like he's hyper aware of the gift that he was given of a second chance at life, just like I am just like you are, just like Chris is. And that's why we do this is to let people know there's life on the other side of whatever was killing you, right?

47:15 So that's a great example is Justin is the opposite. He embraced the gift that he was given and the second chance at life where this guy just basically ate his feelings back into the recliner. Yeah, yeah, big time, big time. So here's here's one of the things that that I'm not going to get on the isogenic soapbox, but this is, this is what it is isoline performance protein. So this is kind of what will you start with because it, it keeps you full, it helps you, it helps you just get in the mindset of, of healthier eating that kind of stuff. So it's a 280 calorie shake. It gives you all the rundown of what's there. It's 36 grams of high quality protein under, under a natured way from grass fed cows, superior amino acids.

48:04 So it's, it's, it's, it's totally it's, it's, it's, it's, it's helping shift your mindset from what you think you're doing is right, but it's really not. So then you kind of go this route. Right away I can't have it though, so that's. Where but they have but they have vegan. That's why I'm bringing it up because I I I when I went vegan, I I stopped the way ones and went to having the vegan shakes because it obviously reasons because when I went, I just stopped the whole the whole all the dairy stuff. And eventually my vegan stopped because of Nikki and I is running. And one of the weeks I I we had a 12 mile run and I'm like, I can't, I can't do that again. So I had chicken three times that week and it was like lights out, man.

48:45 I was like, holy shit, I'm running on there. Yeah, isn't that funny when you chicken Cherian? Yeah, when you feel fueled up and healthy, like running's not so bad or it's not as bad. Nope. Nope. And yeah. So then it was vegan everything plus chicken. Yeah, it was chicken Cherian. Well, I I think one of the biggest lies that we were ever told was that red meat is what was killing us. Yeah. That's all I eat now. That's all I eat. My hamburger. Look at the food pyramid now. It's upside down, right? So meat's at the top and grain is at the bottom. Yeah, so really, all you, all you eat is, is is dead cow. Hamburger, yeah, I'll eat, I'll eat, I'll eat bacon a lot. I'll eat eggs a lot.

49:26 But like, so it would be a a keto style diet. OK, so there are certain carbs. Yeah, there are certain carbs that I'll eat, but it's only on the weekend and it's only homemade cookies or pancakes that my kids make. And we use a special type of flour that doesn't have gluten in it. So yeah, it's kind of nice. OK, Yeah, no, Yeah. You gotta eat the kids cookies, man. No, Yeah. I love the fact that you run. I love the fact that you run with your kids, man. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, so my my longest race was about a year ago. It was a Javelin 100 and it's out of McDowell Mountain and it's a it's 100 mile race.

50:07 And from miles 60 to 80, I got to pick up my wife and she got to run with me for those 20 miles, right. And so for those 20 miles, I was a wreck. I was like falling over. I was like, like, I couldn't take a leak without falling over. I was, I remember I would stop in the middle of my run and I put my arms up like this and my wife's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm trying to get comfortable. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Like I was, I was weird, right? But then I dropped her off at mile 80 and from mile 80 to 100, I got to pick up my 13 year old son at the time, Memphis. And he ran the last 20 miles with me. And just knowing that Memphis was there, knowing that my baby son was watching me, I was, I think there was nothing out of. Her, yeah.

50:47 Like that was, yeah, I was. I wasn't. I wasn't doing this. Crap or anything, I was a monster. It was great. That's awesome man. That is very cool. Anything else you want to talk about? We got about 10 minutes left. You know what, recently I just got back into track meets by about two months two years ago. And track meets, there's, there's this group of runners called the Masters, and it's just a bunch of old guys that didn't stop doing track meets after high school. And I think that might be my new favorite thing. I like running long. I don't. I like what running long distance does for me, but I don't say I would like it. I like running short distance. I like sprinting. That's fun. OK, so is this is this one of your track meet pictures?

51:30 Yes, that's at the, that's at the one that I almost broke the there's an Arizona State record for old guys for the half mile and I was less than half. I was less than a second away from it. Right on. I used to run the 800 in high school. That was my race. Yeah, same here. That's that's what I'm I'm on Team USA. Actually I got to run at worlds last year for Team USA. Oh sweet. Nice. Yeah, right. On Yeah, right on. That's your. That's your daughter. That's another. Son, that's Memphis. He's got long hair. He goes to a school that's very it's got a lot of people in a certain religion. I won't say what it is, but I'm in Gilbert, so we can probably connect those dots. He gets made fun of for having long hair. He gets made fun of for his dad not going to heaven, right. He gets made fun of for his family not being the same. But it's it's kind of nice when he's out running with me. He's yeah, he, he, he, he doesn't. He doesn't care about those things. Or at least he doesn't talk about him. Yeah, yeah.

52:26 You know what? My human. Yeah. Go ahead, Mike. Sorry. You know what my defense mechanism for that was, Joe? Because I had long hair for a long time, too. Yeah, I would just find something about you that I didn't like and pick at that. So teaching. That so OK that picture go back. Which one? The, the one where it hit this one right there and I, I, I don't want to talk about it too much because we're not really supposed to, but the one before with him and I with our shirts off, that was at the, that was at our first sweat lodge that I got that one. And so I, yes. And so Memphis was there. He's got long hair. He was also there with another young boy that had long hair. He was a native kid. And so that was that was one of my proudest nights is when Memphis made it through this, his first sweat lodge.

53:11 So, so, so so we're going to wrap the show up with that because I've sweat lodges have always fascinated. So what what entails that? I mean, obviously the sweat lodge, you go into a big thing that's hot as hell and you just sit there and sweat. I mean, is it? People ask like. Details on that. Kind of yeah. People ask is it like a sauna and I said yeah, kind of like a 5K is the same as 100 mile race, right? You're both running, but it's, it's way different. And I thought so the very first sweat lodge I went to was just with, with me and a bunch of other men, right. And when I went there, this guy goes, have you ever been to 1? I said, no, but my name is Apache Joe and I like to run during the day and I'm blah, blah, blah, right? I'm trying to be this thing.

53:54 And he goes, you've never been this hot in your entire life. And I go what? And we got in there and the flap closed and I realized I've never been this hot in my entire life and I'm about to die. When we left one of the last sweat lodges, I was looking at my knuckles to see if there were blisters. Like I thought it was that I thought it was that hot. When I was covering my face, I thought I had blisters on my hands like it was, it was hot hot. So it's but but something happened. It's almost like 100 mile race, like when you put yourself through something that difficult or running with water in your mouth. When you put yourself through something, something that difficult, you get a rush of maybe it's just like, Oh my God, I didn't die and that's what I'm so happy about. But it's there. There's something to it.

54:37 Yeah. So, so like in in the midst of that, you know, kind of like, you know how people will take mushrooms and they'll drop acid and go. To the and stuff. Like that is it that do you have a right? Do you is is it kind of like AI don't want to say, OK, I don't want to say religious, but spiritual like. Absolutely. The very first. Time total, spiritual. The the very first time when that flap closed and I got scared, one of the guys before said hey if you get scared, don't, don't feel ashamed if you have to get low. And I thought, I'm not, I'm going to get low. I'm Apache Joe. I'm super strong. We get in there and I realize I'm a bitch, right? And I'm scared to death. And I get down. I get down on the ground. I'm laying on the mud on the ground and I'm, I'm like this close to crying.

55:20 And I hear a woman's voice say what? The sweat of your brothers and Mother Earth will keep you safe. Whoa. And that's like, I always remember that. And it was the sweat of the other men in that lodge that kept the ground wet. And it was Mother Earth that just left the, the air maybe 5° cooler down on the ground. That made me feel safe. Like it was it. It was. It was huge. Yeah. That's fantastic and obviously this is the family. That's that's the group, that's the gang. Yeah, yeah, that's the crazy woman who had home births without epidermal. That's right. That's my Caitlin. She got me healthy. Yeah, she she stuck with me. She saw potential. Thank God. Yeah.

56:03 And that's Memphis. Yeah, right. Yeah. And then we got Marlo, my daughter, and then Mac is my youngest son. Cool. Yeah, right on man. I was trying to find a picture of your of your mouth taped Apache Joe, but I couldn't. Yeah, yeah, I. Thought that'd be a fun a fun little thing to end with. Apache Joe taped mouth shut. It's. The only. Time it's been it's been well, that's OK, you know, but you are telling a story in a sense, man, because you're you're people are like, I mean, if OK, so because I've done the I've done the Dutchman 3 or 4 times, not the full. I've never done a full. I was going to do a full and then all of a sudden COVID hit and then I was going to do a full and then realized I stress fractured my, my right 2nd metatarsal, my right foot.

56:48 So it's just, you know, I'm just not supposed to run a full marathon, which, you know, whatever. But if I would have been running in, in the Lost Dutchman and, and, and you, you passed me or I passed you, I would totally be like, what the fuck? Yeah. Oh, I got second. So in my age group I got second place. Yeah, with the tape. With water in your mouth. That's amazing. How old are you? 43. How old 43 OK, what's your what's your what's your best marathon time? So I've only ran it with water in my mouth. I don't know what my regular all out marathon. Oh yeah, but 33330? Wow, that's amazing. What about 1/2? So I've only done 1/2 and I think it was 130.

57:31 I don't know what, but I didn't do water in my mouth. That was that was the first race that I did that was just so but my half, but my half mile at 43 is at a 2O3. So that's where my half mile is. And I did a mile. I did a mile a couple months ago at 4:49. So yeah. OK, my, so my best mile at 53 years old was 555. And I did them back-to-back there, there. Thank you, thank you. Well, the reason why is my son's a Marine. And so he, he had messaged me one day. He's like dad, I did, I did a mile and 6 minutes. I'm like, OK, I'm going to come get you. He's like, OK, old man, it took me, it took about 18 months. It took me 18 months because I started my best was like like 838. So it worked its way down.

58:13 And they were, they were benched, they were indoors. There were benchmarks with Orange Theory Fitness and they were I used to do back-to-back workouts. So the first, the first benchmark day was at the Gilbert East. And I did it 5 minutes, 55 seconds and then that, that class in and I drove to the Queen Creek 1 and did it again. And I actually set the treadmill this time faster and I still hit the same time. I was pissed. I'm like, what the Hell's up with that? But 53 years old doing, yeah, doing, you know, and I was so happy with it, which is cool, you know, so. Yeah, I'm. Worried my son's getting faster. And faster every time. There's this hill. There's this hill on this Mesa out of pass. Every time we go there, I race him and every time I put him in his place.

58:57 But last Saturday, it took a lot longer for me to put him in his place. I thought, geez, this might not be happening this way for too much longer. That's Memphis. That's Memphis, right? Yeah, he's 14 now. Yeah, right on. Right on. Memphis is going to catch you, man. But that's the thing. See, once he catches and passes you, then your motivation is to be is to turn that shit around, catch him, and pass. I can chase his ass, that's right. Yeah, because my son was like, there's no way to. And you can he back up there? There's the boot camp picture up there. But he's like, OK, old man. And then I kept texting him when I was creeping, creeping back, creeping back. He's like, he's been supportive. Yeah, you know, let's go. Yeah. When I, when I, when I, when I screenshot the, I had somebody at the at the Gilbert E behind me and they, they had the video going. So when I, when I hit the mile, it showed it right there. And so I sit up to him and he's like, damn Dad. That's awesome.

59:52 Winning. Yeah, well, that's Apache. That's Apache Joe. So for the use and error, for those of you in Arizona, if you're if you're a runner and you see a guy running with tape on his mouth that says Apache Joe, don't, don't ask him a question. He's busy. He's got one in his mouth and he's running through his nose, which can't talk, which is quite impressive. You're great. Great humor to talk to you, man, Great laugh. Resume. I I followed you for a while on Facebook, so I'm so happy you decided to come on and join us here. Yeah, thanks for inviting me. This is great, guys. This is awesome. Yeah, yeah. And you're welcome to come back anytime you want to because that's who we are. We love having a conversation with cool people like you. We always wrap up like this. So if you're feeling depressed, suicidal, you know, just in the wrong mindset, you know, go out for a run, go workout, go scream in a pillow, go journal, go write, call somebody to talk to you to help change your mind and, and the minds that you have at that time.

1:00:41 If if you can't text 988, somebody's there standing by waiting to talk you off the Cliff. Tomorrow is a better day with you in it because somebody does love you, whether you believe it or not. And with you not being here, you're going to leave a hole in somebody else's heart For the Chris and Mike show. I'm Chris. He's Mike. That's Apache. Joe. Until next episode. We'll see you. Thanks again, Joe. Thank you, Joe. Love it, brother. You can stop it. You stop it, Mike, so we don't double stop this time. On. Your journey, the place where you will go behind your eyes. Take a moment.

1:01:40 Look. Until. You see it, fight the battle and tear the.

1:03:14 Come down here, we haven't found solely in the exam from fighting. Wait for the day. When it's closer out there and. Put in the wind, you ain't no creature. We're playing fire. You should, you put it on the almighty day. You got a dream. Who in your life to keep up solely every day? Take your trip behind your eyes. Feel the soul evolution now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Take a moment.

1:04:04 Let's see you see him fight the battle with you more clear. You gotta, you gotta. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta.