#165 - Matt Melvin - Author

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Yeah, except the boys and girls.
This is the Chris and Mike.

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So I'm Chris, he's Mike.
And Jose with us is Matt Melvin.

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Should we call you Eminem for
short, or is that just you get

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that all the time?
I don't get it all the time, but

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you can identify me as that.
We'll just call you Matt man

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too, buddy.
Oh, that's right.

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MM Michaels and Matt Melvin.
I'm I'm, I'm the oddball here.

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Just the CD man.
What's up with that?

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So welcome to the show, Matt.
How are you today?

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I'm well, how are.
You welcome.

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Matt, man, we're good now.
Better now.

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Your, your story's an
interesting 1.

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So we're just going to let you
kind of, you know, lay some

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background.
You were, you were in prison for

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a while.
I did 2 stints in prison.

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Two stints in prison. 1004 and
the second was in 2016.

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So walk us up.
What led to the?

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First one, yeah.
What led to the first one?

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I worked at a car dealership,
Freedom Nissan on Shelburne Rd.

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in South Burlington, Vt.
What year?

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2004.
Yeah, we, we're going to, we're

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going to make you kind of kind
of want to, we want you to lead

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us up into it like how life was
going.

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If you were involved in any
chaos, if you're, you know,

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involved with, you know, drugs,
all that kind of stuff, you know

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what, what, what we want the
whole picture.

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Comfortable with the back.
Sure, we are true, true because

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not everybody, not everybody's
going to understand certain

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things that you talk about.
So we want to make sure we, we

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cover all the bases with your
story because we actually, you

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know, obviously we want to share
and get your point across and

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there's a message I'm sure at
some point in time here that

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that you're going to want to
convey.

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So, so like Mike said, OK, so
back in 2004.

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Chris Dunham.
What's that, Mike?

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Do me a favor.
Sure.

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Oh, it just stopped.
I was going to have you tilt

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your camera down a hair.
My camera.

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The ghost was at it again.
I was going.

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To have.
Oh, really?

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Oh, weird.
OK.

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I'm sorry.
Yeah.

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So if you want to start there,
Matt, just lead us up into how

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you ended up in prison the first
time.

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Absolutely.
I was just going to backtrack a

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little bit.
Yeah, that's cool.

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The stealing the car wasn't my
first brush with the law.

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There were other instances
walking out of restaurants

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without paying, driving off
without paying for gas.

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Those were speeding, driving 130
on the highway.

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Wow.
I don't believe that most people

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just one day commit a higher
level crime.

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It's, it starts with smaller
level crime and the person for

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me, like it's a, it's a, it's a
threat like driving 130, it's a

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rush.
Driving off without paying for

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gas, it's a rush, you know, not
rocking out of a restaurant

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without paying.
They're all rushes.

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Get it?
So as a man, we, we like that

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adrenaline rush.
Much like when you guys are

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playing that heavy music, I'm
sure you get out of a rush too.

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100% Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had gotten away with it.

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So, you know, go bigger off, go
home.

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I guess the frame of mind and I
really had anger issues, hatred

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issues, frustration issues that
hadn't been addressed properly.

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I was being bullied, feeling
like an outcast.

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And then I come to work at this
car dealership.

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They mistreat me.
Oh, you were working at the

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dealership?
Yeah, OK.

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I missed that part, I'm sorry.
So how?

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How are they mistreating you?
What were they doing?

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Other guys were jumping in in
front of me.

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You know, it's round Robin where
everybody gets their chance.

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Other guys were jumping up in
front, you know it's.

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OK.
The the car dealership is a very

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passive aggressive type of
mentality and if you're.

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Not sold instruments.
So I know that the Commission

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business can be rough when
you're committing with competing

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with other people.
For sure it gets quick and I

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know exactly what you're
talking.

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About 10 other people at A at a
dealership here.

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Some of the dealerships you
might be competing against 2025

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other men and women.
Sure.

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Yeah, yeah.
So I, I, you know, jumped in the

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gauntlet and tried to sell one
of their cars because they

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didn't pay me my commissions.
That was in 2004.

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I got caught.
Oh, how soon after?

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Hours.
Literally it was, I mean, they

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were tracking me that they knew
what was going on.

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It was not.
I mean, the vehicles are tracked

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heavily.
I mean it.

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They're even tracked much more
heavily today than they were 21

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years ago.
That's how GPS knows how to tell

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you where to go.
Right.

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Oh yeah.
They know where you're at too.

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Right at all given times.
OK, so so the vehicle that you

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stole, do you just drive it off
a lot and sell it?

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You were selling to a a second
party like 1/3.

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Party sell it to another car
dealership.

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Oh no.
That wasn't very smart, man.

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OK, real, real quick.
Where was your mindset in that?

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Because instantly I'm like I
would not have done that.

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Yeah, right, right.
Walk me through that.

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Yeah.
I thought I could get away with

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it.
I had gotten away with.

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How old were you when this
happened?

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I was 23.
OK, that's how old are you now?

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I am 44.
OK, OK, that explains a lot

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because your frontal cortex is
not fully formed until you're

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25, so I can forgive some of
this.

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Yeah.
I get it now.

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And just so you know it, it
isn't ironic that in the current

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judicial system.
OK.

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Folks that commit crimes before
25 a lot of times are granted

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the ability to have their crimes
committed up until the age of 25

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expunged after that there and
and I should preface that that

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is for nonviolent offenders.
OK, OK.

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It's not, you know, if you
commit murder at 23, they don't

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excuse it.
So I I just want not.

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It's not by coincidence that
this stuff happens.

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OK.
OK.

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That's good to know.
That's interesting.

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I didn't know that.
So they sent you to prison on

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your first offence?
Or had you been in jail before,

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so to speak?
Jail.

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OK, never.
And they sent you to prison for

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your first offence.
Yeah.

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So you get arrested that night.
What happens from that point

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forward?
I did 18 months.

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Wow.
So you went in front of the

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judge and he just gave me a year
and a half just straight up,

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this is going to be your
sentence.

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It's Jeffrey.
Crawford, Judge in the federal

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federal case.
Thanks, Jeffrey.

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Wow.
Right.

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And at that time, the state had
a mental health corps.

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But OK.
Jeffrey Crawford, the judge, and

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Bob Wolford both decided I
didn't meet the criteria to go

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through the mental health court,
even though I'd seen about 2530

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therapists.
Oh my, so I read some of your

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back story when you submitted.
I love that now.

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Yeah, that was cool, Yeah.
I agree with you and I know

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you're going to get to this, but
instantly I got rage because

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you're 23 years old, you'd never
been in trouble with the law.

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Granted you Grand Theft, you
stole a car, but nobody died.

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There's murderers, serial
killers, rapists, there's all

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kinds of violent criminals,
which we just discussed.

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So explain the mental health
option that your state had that

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they chose not to use.
In Vermont, they have a mental

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health court where a defendant
like myself can go through.

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It's similar to drug court,
except there's not the testing,

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you know, there's not the drug
testing, but there is the mental

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health therapy component to.
That is it outpatient or is it

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someplace you'd go to serve a
sentence like you would in a

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prison?
That's a good question.

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No, all of, I mean, you come to
court on a weekly basis to, to

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check in, make sure that the
offender myself or who, whomever

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has not committed another crime.
And provided that you don't pick

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up any other crimes and you're
doing what you're supposed to be

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doing, mental health counseling,
then as soon as it's done, as

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soon as then your record is
expunged.

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So you're being heavily
monitored and you probably have

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to go through X amount of
classes and if you miss one deal

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you're in prison, right?
I I don't want to speculate on

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something that I don't know.
I'm guessing that's probably how

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it works.
I would guess because in drug if

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you test positive once you're
done.

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Yep.
Yeah.

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So what kind of prison did they
send you to in lieu of this

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better option?
2 Vermont prisons Which Vermont

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prison is not what federal
prison is like?

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So you need a.
Little bit of a go ahead.

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I don't know if I'd say Country
Club, but somewhere in between.

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It's certainly not a.
The Vermont one.

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Yes.
OK, it's.

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It's a lot better than some of
the other prisons in other

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states that I've seen in my when
I did my 18 months the second

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time in in federal prison.
OK, we had a we had a guy on a

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couple weeks ago that was in
prison a couple times.

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We had some fun with him.
As far as as far as the the into

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what?
I don't know what the what's the

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word?
I'm looking for Mike.

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The imaginative.
The imaginative way.

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Is that right?
The imaginative way They made

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food like ramen burritos.
Are you familiar with ramen

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burritos?
I'm familiar with very strange

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things that.
Tell us about some because we

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were fascinated with that.
We didn't eat any of it.

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OK, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't think I would eat it

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any.
So prison food's nasty, right?

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Thing you don't know what's else
is in it that they're not

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telling you about?
The prison food are the ones

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that are making the homemade
food the.

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Inmates that are making the
food.

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In the pots.
OK.

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Yeah, I could see that.
And Don seemed like that was his

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cell mate, right?
And they?

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Were pretty tight.
Yeah, so he trusted the guy, I

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think.
That's why they were probably

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making it together, you know?
Yeah.

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How long were you in?
When?

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So when you're in prison, was it
were you, was it kind of like a,

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a, a white collar type prison to
where you had, you know, you,

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you weren't OK, so you were
locked.

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White collar.
OK, No, this is everybody and

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their brother.
You're in there with violent

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criminals.
OK.

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Absolutely no question.
General. 23 hours a day

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lockdown, OK, which?
Yeah, 23 hours a day lockdown

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type thing like in your cell or
how was that?

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The first time, no OK I was
pretty much allowed in general

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population.
They tried putting me in the

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mental health unit.
Unfortunately, the mental health

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units usually turn out to be the
sex offender unit.

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Oh.
Oh, really?

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Yes.
Because is that just because

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their attorneys kind of spin it?
Oh, he's, he's not competent.

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Because for him to do that type
of thing, he's got to be wacky.

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Yes.
Well, that's bullshit.

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So, and I've seen this both in
Vermont and then in the federal

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system that when I would get
into mental health unit, I would

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be surrounded by a whole bunch
of white old guys that were sex

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offenders and then and then I
would be labeled as a sex

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offender and.
Then I would be coming.

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Oh oh fuck that sucks man.
That's terrible.

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So did you did were you
constantly kind of looking over

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your shoulder because it just I?
Was.

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Absolutely.
Yeah.

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Wow.
So.

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You ended up guilty by
association.

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Yes.
But you weren't associated.

231
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,480
That's just how it looked to
them.

232
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,120
And to do do with them?
Absolutely.

233
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,400
Of course.
Despicable.

234
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,560
Yeah, that's awful, man.
So how long of your sentence did

235
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,720
you have to endure that kind of
terror in your mind every day?

236
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,800
A good portion of it.
That sucks dude.

237
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,240
Yeah.
That is, yeah, that could break

238
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,080
a person.
Yeah.

239
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,640
And how and and this, how long
was this stint, this initial

240
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,760
stint in 2418 months?
That was 18 months.

241
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,560
And then the second time was 18
months.

242
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,720
Same Judge Jeffrey Crawford in
both the state and the federal.

243
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,680
Yeah, I, I don't, I don't think
you this would ever happen in

244
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,960
any other state.
Is that for just like you?

245
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,840
Or me state.
Did did Jeffrey just not like

246
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,520
you?
Yeah, what was Jeffrey's deal?

247
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:34,440
Was he old?
He was old, yes, he was a very

248
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,440
individual.
I'll never forget what he

249
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,440
sentenced me the second time, he
said, Mr. Melvin, if you ever

250
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:46,640
see me on Church St. which is
this outdoor shopping place,

251
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,960
feel free to come up and shake
my hand.

252
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,080
And I thought to myself, first
of all, you would probably never

253
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,720
be on Church St.
That's like Bernie Sanders

254
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,040
saying, if you ever see me, you
want me to shake my hand.

255
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,200
Well, it wouldn't be to shake
your hand.

256
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,680
Yeah, fuck you, Jeffrey.
Wow.

257
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,480
And I only ask because he's old
before everybody crucifies me

258
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,000
for that because I had to go to
court for two sets of tickets

259
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,480
that I got for no insurance and
no registration.

260
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,120
And this guy, and without saying
the words, basically told me if

261
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,120
he could lock me away, he would.
That's how seriously he took my

262
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,360
offense because apparently I was
flippant about the way I was

263
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,440
acting in court.
You know, he was, he was about

264
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,400
89 years old.
And he's read me the riot act

265
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,080
over a couple traffic citations,
basically because they were two

266
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,440
weeks apart, right?
That's why I'm asking that

267
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,640
question, because he was a
crotchety old man and that's the

268
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:51,720
way your guy sounded.
He was, but not to mention that

269
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:59,920
he, you know, had gotten into
his position by convictions.

270
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:04,200
I mean, that's how people,
judges, lawyers, cops move up

271
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,480
within their cults is by
convictions.

272
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,040
Yeah.
That's a true story.

273
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:11,640
Yeah.
Oh yeah.

274
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,360
It's a.
Right, so he and so he moved up

275
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,680
that ladder.
Yeah, he had.

276
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,120
He had gotten nominated 2 years
ago, two years before that by

277
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:26,120
drunk former Senator Patrick
Leahy.

278
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,000
Wow, man, now how long was the
stint?

279
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,440
How did you end up in federal
prison?

280
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,920
Yeah.
That's a good question. 2009 I

281
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,760
couldn't pass a background
check.

282
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,280
I used other people's
information to try to get work.

283
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,080
I did the work, but I just used
other people's Social Security

284
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,680
card and driver's license.
The government pursued me for

285
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,400
six years.
Even a fugitive limitations that

286
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,160
runs out of five.
They went to 10 different grand

287
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,000
juries, spent about a half,
$1,000,000.

288
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:09,160
Wow.
I only got a grand jury

289
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,079
indictment now.
You have to remember that a

290
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,160
grand jury will indict a ham
sandwich, and a grand jury has a

291
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,880
in the in the in the federal
system, there's a 96% conviction

292
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,119
rate.
Really.

293
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,640
Wow.
That's insane.

294
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,520
So you have to have like,
straight up like.

295
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,960
So how did OJ get it off man?
He had a lot of money and good

296
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,920
lawyers.
What's supposed to say?

297
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,520
Yeah, OK, yeah, you got to.
You got to have the money.

298
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,840
You got to have the pockets.
Wow, 96% so even if even if you

299
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,560
had.
But J.

300
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,640
Cole was in trouble in the
state, not the feds.

301
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,360
Oh, I got, I got you.
Oh, so you why were you, why

302
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:46,320
were you in trouble with the
feds?

303
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,840
Because of the using other
people's Social Security cards

304
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,080
and stuff.
They charged me with aggravated

305
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,640
identity theft and money
launder.

306
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,360
Across state lines because
that's the only way feds can get

307
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,880
involved.
I guess.

308
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:01,360
I.
I I don't know.

309
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,280
Probably because you were paying
into the Social Security system.

310
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,080
I'm guessing that's why.
They got involved.

311
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,400
What's Yeah, Social Security?
Medicare theft, man.

312
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,040
Yeah.
How many times did you do it?

313
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,120
Like how many identities did
they claim that?

314
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,480
A fair number.
OK, wow.

315
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,960
But you have to remember I was
always doing the work.

316
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,600
Yeah.
And my attorney who was a

317
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,440
private attorney, Paul Volk,
I've been practicing defense

318
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,640
lawyer for 35 years.
He'd never seen a case where a

319
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:38,160
defendant was so brutally gone
after when there was no victim

320
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,040
loss and there was no victim
impact statement at sentencing.

321
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,600
Because that is correct.
In a fraud case, there is loss.

322
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,800
There's a significant amount of
loss.

323
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,080
Yeah, nobody showed up and said
Matt screwed me out of XY and Z,

324
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,360
right?
There was nobody there.

325
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,480
What?
Even what and the the

326
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,400
prosecutor, Michael Drescher.
Well, guess what he's doing

327
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,680
today.
He's now the US Attorney for the

328
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,800
state of Vermont.
He didn't give me a chance.

329
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,760
I wanted to say he's a judge or
a United States something or

330
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,760
other.
Let me backtrack a little bit

331
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,400
about that.
Michael Drescher was originally

332
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,840
assigned to the case.
He then assigned somebody else

333
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,240
and then he came back and I, I
can't remember the lawyer's name

334
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,520
who was in between it.
It's, it's irrelevant.

335
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,480
It doesn't really matter.
But again, you have to

336
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,320
understand this is not normal.
The way things work normally,

337
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,760
whoever's assigned the case is
that on the case for the entire

338
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:44,520
time.
Wow so where did they send you

339
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,360
this insane man?
10 different institutions. 10.

340
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,640
Hell, what to do with me?
I wrote hundreds and hundreds of

341
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,760
grievances, which is the
complaint system.

342
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,120
I was raped.
The garden tried to say to the

343
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,120
guards that I was.
I tried to proposition that and

344
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,200
this.
Happened when you went to

345
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,960
federal prison.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but

346
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:09,480
Brooklyn.
Happened.

347
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:11,960
Wow.
So you had none of these

348
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,560
problems in the state other than
they associated you with

349
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,520
something you weren't.
Correct.

350
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,080
The only issue I had in the
state was they put me in the

351
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,480
mental health unit and I got
identified as a sex offender.

352
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,080
Sure I was not.
I was only at I.

353
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,440
So let me let me backtrack one
second.

354
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:39,000
I was assaulted very early on
because I was in a dormitory

355
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,680
type unit in the gym in
Chittenden County.

356
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:47,280
Ohio, OK.
That was before you went to

357
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,200
prison though, right?
But other than that, there were

358
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,880
it.
It was not even close to what it

359
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,560
was in the federal system.
So what happened when you got

360
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,560
there?
Where was the 1st place that

361
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,800
they sent you and did it happen
there or?

362
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,080
The first place I went was Saint
Albans.

363
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,320
Which is.
In Vermont.

364
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,840
OK.
Because I was still going to

365
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,960
court.
Sure.

366
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,120
And the judge was Jeffrey
Crawford, and he was based out

367
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:20,920
of Rutland.
So they had to move me.

368
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,040
They kept moving me from part of
the reason I was moved so much

369
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,560
in the beginning was because I
had to go to court.

370
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,720
So they had to move me to
Rutland, which was closer to

371
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,320
where Jeffrey Crawford was the
judge.

372
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,440
See here's how it works when the
Magistrate Judge dictates who

373
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,440
what judge will be assigned the
case.

374
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,440
OK, a Magistrate Judge handles
the arraignments.

375
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,120
Gotcha.
And wherever that judge is now,

376
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:54,520
in Vermont, currently there's
only two places that federal

377
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,080
judges set.
Burlington, which is where

378
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,400
pretty much where I live, and
Rutland, which is 2 hours South

379
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,880
of the year.
Now in most states, there's more

380
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,000
than that.
There's more than just one or

381
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,880
two federal courthouses.
Right.

382
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:23,560
Wow, that's crazy.
So your terror started happening

383
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:29,480
there?
My terror started in Saint

384
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,160
Albans, yes, because I was
writing a lot of grievances.

385
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,960
I wasn't really fitting into the
unit.

386
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,320
I was, I was having problems
again, I was targeted.

387
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,480
You know, I'm gay, man.
Come into the prison.

388
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:53,080
They don't know who this guy is.
And immediately people assume,

389
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,560
make assumptions because I'm not
a drug dealer.

390
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,240
And, and if you're not in that
cult club, whatever you want to

391
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,680
call it, they identify you.
You're not a gang member.

392
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,840
You're not a Skinhead, you're
not, you're nothing, right?

393
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,200
You don't identify.
OK, so because of that.

394
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,000
And they just.
Right.

395
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,160
So then they create their own
label and then so because you

396
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,760
were were not those things, is
that how they decided that you

397
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,280
were a pedophile?
Yes, but I, I, I, I find it

398
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,200
amazing.
Here's why.

399
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,760
Because all somebody needs to
know is your first and last

400
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,200
name.
They can then get on the

401
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,920
telephone and say to their wife,
look up this guy and it's very

402
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,360
clear if you look up my name
that I have absolutely zero sex

403
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,080
offenses.
Yeah.

404
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,040
Here's the thing, it's not
there's no amusement If the

405
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,440
guy's a white collar crime like
there's it's not fun.

406
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,000
Yeah, we label this guy as a sex
offender now.

407
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,240
Now there's, now we could play
some games.

408
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,160
Now it's fun.
So that's why I believe I was

409
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,320
targeted.
They don't care about the truth,

410
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,760
they just a.
Lot of these guys are are going

411
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,440
to be in there for the rest of
their life.

412
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,000
Sure.
Yeah.

413
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,200
So they're just creating
nothing.

414
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,720
To lose well.
Why not?

415
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,640
What else do they have to do?
Agree.

416
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,120
I just want people to understand
their mindset towards you and

417
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:19,400
that you have no way of saying,
hey, I, I didn't do this,

418
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,960
fellas, you know, you can't talk
to somebody in prison like that.

419
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,080
These guys don't give a fuck.
They killed people, they raped

420
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,920
people, they did whatever.
You know, they're violent

421
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,680
people.
They don't care.

422
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,160
Yeah, there's no look at it this
way.

423
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:40,000
It's like walking up to a
protester that's protesting

424
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,640
against Donald Trump.
There's just no common sense.

425
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,880
They don't even know what
they're standing for.

426
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,920
Right.
And you for surely couldn't say,

427
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,280
hey, let me tell you why you're
wrong.

428
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,320
But why would you argue with
somebody that has no no morals?

429
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,240
No.
I agree with you.

430
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,600
So with the with so you're,
you're targeted, which is

431
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,000
horrific and you don't fit in in
this unit.

432
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,160
So then you have the prison
guards themselves.

433
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,000
Obviously they're no ally
because you're a prisoner and

434
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,840
their prison guard are do
everything you see on TV.

435
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,920
What not you know, the prison
guard zone.

436
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,600
I was portrayed in the in the in
the in the most gracious light,

437
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,880
right.
So is is is there any solace if

438
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,240
you're being cornered or you
know you're being followed?

439
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,720
Can you were you able to go to
guard and say, hey, this is

440
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,480
what's going on?
Or did it just brush you off,

441
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,680
get get go back to brush the?
Long off.

442
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,560
Just.
Like I was writing a lot of

443
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,720
grievances and when you can
write a lot of grievances and

444
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,160
write you're, you're putting up
a target on your back.

445
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,040
OK, gotcha.
But listen, I was held

446
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,640
accountable for my actions.
I'm going to hold other people

447
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,840
accountable for their actions.
It's no different than when I'm

448
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,600
identifying people in my book.
There were a lot of people who

449
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:08,640
said, I don't think you should
be labeling right using sitting.

450
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,200
And Jeffrey Crawford is still a
sitting judge.

451
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,120
I'm Treasurer, is the US
Attorney currently.

452
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,440
Let me ask you this real quick,
man.

453
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,160
Insured from the IRS is still
there, my child from Secret

454
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,040
Service, they're all there.
I don't like all of that.

455
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,920
Let me ask you this, just out of
curiosity, and this is just my

456
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,400
own ignorance.
Why do the guards care that

457
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,240
you're right?
Are you writing them against

458
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,440
them?
The grievances.

459
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,880
Yes, because they're not
anything.

460
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,960
OK, OK.
I wanted to know why the guards

461
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,240
weren't on your side.
Yeah.

462
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,320
So when you got raped, you
obviously grievance that like

463
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,760
brought everybody's attention
and nobody did anything.

464
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,880
No, they didn't do anything.
In fact, when I got out and I

465
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,680
tried to hold them accountable,
they're like, we don't know.

466
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,800
It never happened.
OK, then let me ask you the

467
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,520
question this way.
If you win that grievance, does

468
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,760
do one of them get in trouble?
Like are they reprimanded

469
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,280
because they didn't protect you?
The.

470
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,200
Inmate winning a grievance, just
like I've never heard of an

471
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,600
inmate winning when he's written
a disciplinary report.

472
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,520
But is that's.
My question though, do you know

473
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,800
that is there a consequence to
them?

474
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,240
No, there's not.
No, no.

475
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,840
Wow.
So now they're assholes on the

476
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,800
other side.
Yes.

477
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,920
Because they just figured you're
an inmate, you fucked up.

478
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,440
We don't, you know, we're just
being paid what, however many

479
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,160
dollars an hour to watch your
ass.

480
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,880
Yep.
And you're stirring the pot, so

481
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,080
you're a troublemaker.
So we're not going to we're

482
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,160
going to turn a blind eye to
anything you say and you and so

483
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,760
of that. 1st a lot of men and
women that become prison guards

484
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,400
do the same because get get into
that position because they want

485
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,160
to wield power over another
person no different than police

486
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,360
officers which is the biggest
cult in America.

487
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,000
Sure, you're going to have that
apples everywhere you.

488
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,760
Go Yeah, yeah, It's, it's that
I've heard over over my lifetime

489
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,080
that, you know, most of the I
don't, I don't, I don't know,

490
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,320
percentage.
And I'm not going to sit here

491
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,120
bash cops because that's not
good for anybody.

492
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,520
But a high a percentage of those
that go into law enforcement

493
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,600
were bullied as a child.
And then when they grow up,

494
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,760
they're all big and powerful.
Now they they want a position of

495
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,280
power so then they can be the
bully themselves.

496
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,920
I would look at it from this
direction.

497
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,560
I, I think for a lot of years I
thought like you did, I think

498
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,840
it's more that there's very few
bad apples, but they're so

499
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,560
magnified because nobody talks
about the police officers that

500
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,440
do a good job every.
Day, that's true.

501
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,720
You don't say that.
OK?

502
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,480
Say there's twenty officers on a
force and one of them is bad.

503
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,280
We only know what we don't say.
Hey, the 19 guys today they

504
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,640
saved an old woman from dying of
a heart attack.

505
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,840
They pulled a baby out of a
burning house.

506
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,280
They, you know, but that one
guy, he picked this girl up and

507
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,760
he took her and raped her
because he was a cop, right?

508
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,160
That's the guy we're going to
hear about.

509
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Yeah, we're hearing about.
The.

510
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,800
Small percentage of guards from
Matt.

511
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,680
They're out there, but you and I
both know if you put 100 people

512
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,280
in a room, what are the odds one
of them is either an asshole or

513
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,160
a complete moron?
Oh, absolutely, 100 and we

514
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,320
right.
And we had and, and just to

515
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,600
advocate for the prison guard.
So we had a prison guard on the

516
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,480
show.
That's why I want to make sure.

517
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,440
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm sure Matt encountered

518
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,720
some good ones out there, but
the bad ones made it so horrible

519
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,960
for you that that's it affected
your life in such a negative

520
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,480
way.
And I can understand that.

521
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,480
Believe me when I say my heart
goes out to you for that.

522
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,240
I just want to make it clear
that we're not bashing all

523
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,200
police officers.
Yeah, no, no bashing all but

524
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,440
those few that are that are so
bad it just gets magnified.

525
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,240
Does that make sense?
Yes.

526
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,280
Yeah.
Agreed.

527
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,480
Agreed. 100% agreed.
Yeah, yeah.

528
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,200
That's OK.
So where did you go from?

529
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,600
Now you're in Vermont.
You went to nine other places

530
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,160
after that.
How did that happen?

531
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,800
I was writing a lot of
grievances.

532
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,600
They didn't know what to do with
me.

533
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,560
So they just kicked you from one
federal prison to another,

534
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,600
correct?
Made you somebody else's

535
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,920
problem, right?
For how?

536
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,880
Long. 18 months. 18 months.
Oh, you did 218 months stents

537
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,680
correct.
OK.

538
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,080
So.
So 9 prisons in 18 months, 10

539
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,920
for the first stent for the
first stent for your first

540
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,200
eighteen OK with second stent.
How about the first stent when

541
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,880
you're in for 18 months?
That was Allstate Prison in

542
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,640
Vermont, right?
OK, OK, OK.

543
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,520
So you had more, you had more
problems, it sounds like in the

544
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,520
second time around than you did
the first time.

545
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,440
Oh yeah, a lot more problems.
I mean.

546
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,920
You know, and when I say 18
months, I should just preface

547
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,360
change one thing I did a year
and a half and a halfway house.

548
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,600
So it's about 16 1/2 months in
federal prison and then a month

549
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,640
and a half and a halfway house.
Everybody, every inmate that

550
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240
goes through the federal system
has to go to a halfway house.

551
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,320
And the time that that inmate
does at a halfway house is all

552
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,200
based on the sentence.
So 18 months, very short time,

553
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,560
10 years.
They're going to be there for a

554
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,960
couple of years before they
actually before then, then

555
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,000
they're released out to the
streets.

556
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,320
Right.
And the halfway house.

557
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,200
Is brutal too.
So let's just say it's a racket

558
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,800
on its own right it?
Was brutal.

559
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,000
There was no solace for me.
Right.

560
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,120
Why?
Yeah, that's, yeah, I've, I've

561
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,880
haven't personally had
experiences with that, but I

562
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,680
have, I have someone I know that
when they're going through rehab

563
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,040
and stuff and drug rehab, things
like that, once they got out of

564
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,320
the facilities, they had to go
to type group home, halfway

565
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,000
house, whatever.
And it was just this a shit

566
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,440
show.
So I can only imagine it being

567
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,240
even more so with convicted
felons, right?

568
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,960
Because then again, again, in
that, in that, that geography

569
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,560
for that, that halfway house,
it's everybody, right?

570
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,160
It's not just it's there's no
you're.

571
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,480
Not going to have a excuse me?
Somebody that's.

572
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,400
In prison for life is not going
to.

573
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,040
Sure, yeah, but you?
Have all sorts of people.

574
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:16,560
It's also.
Going to have you.

575
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,120
Know it's obviously all men,
there's no women, but there's

576
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,480
maybe women that are working
there.

577
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,720
You just shouldn't have the
violent offenders and stuff

578
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,680
because it does.
Absolutely.

579
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,200
No question.
Yeah, yeah, yes.

580
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,560
When I was at the halfway house,
there was a guy that went out to

581
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,160
work and he when he came back,
he tried to sneak in a cell

582
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,200
phone.
So what happened was the US

583
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,440
Marshals ended up coming and
still searching everybody.

584
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,160
Oh.
No.

585
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,680
The The Halfway House is still
under the auspice of the US

586
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,920
Marshals the US.
Marshals, I didn't know that.

587
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,520
Because he's a federal prisoner
still.

588
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,560
Right.
OK, OK.

589
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,800
So how many people are in this
house?

590
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:58,480
Sorry.
Wow.

591
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,880
I would say about 20 Wow and.
Like a four bedroom house,

592
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:10,040
right?
There are two dormitory style

593
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,920
rooms and when I say dormitory,
bump beds.

594
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,120
OK, gotcha.
Yeah, sure.

595
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,080
Yeah, that was my experience
with it.

596
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,880
There was, it was 4 bedrooms.
You had 16 to 18 people in that

597
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,920
four bedroom house.
Same thing.

598
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,800
I don't, you know, doubled up
and, you know, everybody gets a

599
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,640
little square in the fridge.
You know, I.

600
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,840
Don't remember any fridge but
I'm sure the drag I just don't.

601
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,760
Not one of the priorities for
me.

602
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,440
So was it?
Was it worse being in prison or

603
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,040
worse being in the halfway
house?

604
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,720
That's a good question.
I was halfway house was.

605
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,240
That's right.
That's what I was thinking.

606
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,360
Because at least in prison,
you're behind you.

607
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,760
The door, the door closes behind
you at night.

608
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,840
Now, when you're in prison, were
you were you in a cell by

609
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,320
yourself or did you share?
I was in.

610
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,320
I did a lot of time in solitary
confinement.

611
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,840
Which is horrible.
Right.

612
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,080
But when you're in Jim Paul.
Protected.

613
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,320
Yeah, that's true.
I knew that was.

614
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,080
True.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew.

615
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,520
That.
You wouldn't get raped, you

616
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,880
wouldn't get pissed on, shit
thrown at you so.

617
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,120
That's where I started doing my
studies, reading my box,

618
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:30,800
exercising, praying, and that's
really where I develop honed my

619
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,120
skills that I have that really
good discipline today because I,

620
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,639
I have a lot of friends that
have issues that they, they

621
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,679
can't get their mind around.
Well, that's why I said that

622
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,880
could break a person.
I think it's so admirable that

623
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,080
now that we're getting to that
part of your story, you use that

624
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,120
time to strengthen your mind,
which is I think if I could, I

625
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,680
would try to do that myself.
As well, so the guards knew what

626
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,360
I was doing and then one of the
facilities actually confiscated

627
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,480
my journal entries.
Oh fuck.

628
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,600
Jeez, so now they're working
against you.

629
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,320
Right.
And this was the same facility

630
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,320
that I was assaulted by a sex
offender.

631
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:16,400
So while I was at the halfway
house, I was a victim in that

632
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,840
case against that individual.
And let me tell you, when you're

633
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:27,880
a victim in a in a jail, you are
treated so much differently than

634
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,600
a victim is treated on the
outside, especially a woman.

635
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,280
Oh yeah, sure.
Oh yeah.

636
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,560
I could see that.
Yeah, yeah, because why are they

637
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,680
going to, they're automatically
going to think that you're,

638
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,440
you're exaggerating what
actually happened because you're

639
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,640
a convict.
So your your credibility because

640
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,000
of that unfortunately is
regardless if you're telling

641
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,240
truth or not is out the window,
then it's all about evidence.

642
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,200
And and with what you went
through, there's probably a lot

643
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,400
of circumstantial evidence.
A lot of he said, she said, you

644
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,480
know, for lack of better term
there like your word against his

645
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,240
word.
And because the prison kind of

646
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:08,320
just blew it off, right.
So I'm assuming you didn't go to

647
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,320
medical after the fact and get,
you know, rape kit, all that

648
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,680
kind of jazz because everybody
says, ah, shut up, Matt, you're

649
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:20,640
fine.
I did, and I think that's why

650
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,080
they pursued the case.
Oh, OK, OK.

651
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,600
Otherwise they may not have done
anything.

652
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,960
Oh, OK.
So at least you had that.

653
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,840
But then they still kind of were
just like, yeah, whatever.

654
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,280
And now what was the outcome of
that?

655
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,440
Or is it still going on?
His, well, he was a sex

656
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,120
offender.
He was in there for like 20

657
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,520
years and he got a concurrent
sentence, which means it runs

658
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,880
the same time that he's it
doesn't, it doesn't do it.

659
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,280
It's not justice, you know.
Oh, so he so you won, but he

660
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,280
just got additional time?
Well, they he got a plea ball

661
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,480
again.
I mean, I don't know if that's a

662
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,160
win.
Well, I know, I know.

663
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:03,680
Conviction on his record.
Yeah, yeah.

664
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,440
See, now to me, I always kind of
hold on to the fact that I think

665
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,800
sex offenders get destroyed in
prison because they're sex

666
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,320
offenders.
That's not necessarily true.

667
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,520
It isn't.
That's a bummer.

668
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,400
On any level.
Believe they should all be

669
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,880
thrown in the Everglades.
Oh, I agree, Mike, and I agree.

670
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,760
That's let me ask.
You this though, Matt, on any

671
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,520
level like child molesters.
What was your experience with

672
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,800
them?
Oh, I wanted nothing to do with

673
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,520
them, no.
I mean, how were they treated?

674
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,880
I know you were.
Treated.

675
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,280
Some were not treated well, but
when I was in Danbury I was in a

676
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,040
unit full of sex offenders.
Don told us the same thing and

677
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,680
Chris and I about fell out of
our chairs.

678
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,280
Yeah, yeah.
We have this illusion that sex

679
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,160
offenders are being treated
harshly in prison, and now

680
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,520
you're the second person to tell
us that is not the case.

681
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:53,800
That's.
Absolutely.

682
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:59,640
It's not the case at all, and I
would venture to say that most

683
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:05,240
sex offenders are not treated
the way they should be.

684
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,720
Treated.
I'm so disappointed to hear

685
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:08,520
that.
I am too, man.

686
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,120
What's wrong with our penal
system, damn it?

687
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,960
Everybody's got a sister or a
mother.

688
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,400
Everybody's for surely got a
mother.

689
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,480
You know what?
If that was your mother,

690
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,200
somebody did that too.
I would hope I just had this

691
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,640
vision.
I don't know.

692
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,560
Like Chris said, we.
Just I did too.

693
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:23,960
I don't know what what you want
to call it.

694
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,880
I'm sorry to hear that.
I think they're toddled.

695
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,880
I think the guards toddle them.
That's just.

696
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,560
And then they treated you like
you've been explaining to us.

697
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:41,960
It just, you were basically a
paper on paper criminal, right?

698
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,440
Nobody got hurt.
Nobody ever got hurt.

699
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,040
In fact, I broke so many rules.
It's not funny when I say that.

700
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,240
So many barriers.
This again.

701
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:56,000
Like I said, my attorney had
never seen the government go

702
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,640
after somebody so harshly that
didn't have a single victim

703
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,640
loss.
Well, that's why I think it's

704
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,400
important to say again that
nobody got hurt.

705
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,720
You know, there's people that
are listening to this, that

706
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,600
we've made it far enough in
they're going, he's a criminal.

707
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,280
He stole a car, he stole some
identities.

708
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,520
Think about how we've carried
this conversation.

709
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,160
We are talking about people who
have raped children, mothers,

710
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,800
sisters, aunts, uncles, all
walks of life.

711
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,360
The people that you care about
are in prison with Matt.

712
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,760
He's being treated like a piece
of shit and they're being

713
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,080
coddled.
That makes me angry.

714
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,560
I'll just quickly reference, I
don't know if you know who

715
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,800
Warren Jeffs is.
Yes, 100%.

716
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,280
Yeah, do you know that?
Still people today, after he's

717
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,040
been convicted of everything
that he's been convicted of that

718
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,760
still believe he's for profit
and are still coming in his jail

719
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,880
cell, still coming to see him.
I sick ideology.

720
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,640
Ideology is the word.
Right.

721
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:59,480
Yes.
And for people who don't know,

722
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,280
Warren Jeffs was the leader of
the.

723
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:02,840
Coddled.
He's in a single.

724
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,920
Cell but.
Yet he's getting visited.

725
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,600
I wasn't allowed any visitors.
That's insane man.

726
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,440
It is, it's not.
I'm blown away at the whole

727
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:21,160
story.
Just just insanity.

728
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,960
So you get through the 18
months, the first stent, right?

729
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,080
You you get to the halfway
house. 2004 So now we're at

730
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,720
what, 2007?
No.

731
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,920
We're we've already done the
second stint.

732
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,600
It's now this is 18 and I'm out.
OK, OK So what?

733
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,960
So I must have missed that.
So when you got out of the 1st

734
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,760
18 months that was 2006 ish
right?

735
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,160
By the time that was 2005.
OK.

736
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,920
So how did you get, how did you
end up going back?

737
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,240
Was that the aggravated identity
theft stuff?

738
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,400
I couldn't pass a background
check, so I was using.

739
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,880
Other people.
And that wasn't until 2009,

740
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,760
right, You said.
OK, so and the reason you.

741
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,520
Actually stop.
Like I had done that in 2009 and

742
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,080
then I stopped doing it.
OK, and they behave you for.

743
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,240
Me that was OK that was a six
year thing gotcha gotcha that

744
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:13,520
was a six year thing OK, I'm I'm
I'm you you've given us so much

745
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,800
information in my head I was
like wait a minute I.

746
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,840
Got lost for a second too so I'm
glad you did that.

747
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:23,720
Much information that a lot of
people get confused and I don't

748
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,440
mean to do that.
No, you're fine.

749
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,880
We're with you now.
Yeah, yeah.

750
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:33,120
So in two. 1018 you're out.
What how has how has your life

751
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,560
been since then?
Like re acclimating yourself to

752
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,600
society?
How did you do that?

753
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,040
I've done that myself, so I'm
curious of your story.

754
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:49,040
Typically that the shortest
probation supervision sentence

755
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,560
is 3 years.
OK, that's the shortest amount

756
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,680
of time I had asked after a year
and a half to be released.

757
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:03,320
The Shelver News put a story in
the paper that I was asking to

758
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,760
be released early, and every
single time that's a defendant

759
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,080
asked to be released from
supervision, it's always turned

760
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,280
down the first time.
Always.

761
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,200
Why is that just just?
Time I was granted it.

762
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,760
OK.
But as usual, Michael Dratcher

763
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,040
is fighting vehemently against
it, just like always.

764
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,280
I mean, if that's what the US
attorney does, they don't want

765
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,520
anybody to be released off of
supervision.

766
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,720
They make money.
It's a money making scam.

767
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:44,080
And you have to understand that
the difference between federal

768
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:50,280
and state is you sign a
document, you we have to write

769
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,920
out what we did every single
week.

770
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:58,040
We have to get passes.
And at the bottom of that is you

771
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,760
are signing and agreeing that
this is accurate.

772
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,760
And if it's not, they can charge
you with perjury.

773
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:09,800
So that's the huge difference
with federal versus state.

774
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,960
State does a lot more of leeway.
And in the federal system,

775
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,840
everything that you do is being
trapped.

776
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,400
There's a lot of things that you
have to sign, you have to agree

777
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,400
to.
And if you lie about the

778
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,960
smallest thing, they can charge
you with perjury.

779
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,680
And you're going to be, I'm
going to be a fine target.

780
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,320
Like this is what they these
guys live for.

781
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:47,600
They live for convictions.
And you're a two time felon,

782
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,960
right?
I well, I'm have more

783
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,160
convictions than that, yes.
OK, so how many convictions do

784
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,120
you have?
Now.

785
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,880
Yeah.
That haven't been expunged or

786
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,000
sealed.
Well, just in general, in your

787
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,680
in your lifetime, how many
convictions?

788
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,400
A lot.
An awful lot.

789
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,720
More than 10.
Well, you have to ask the

790
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:20,960
question because most all of my
state crimes have been either

791
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,520
sealed or expunged.
Oh, OK, so under under eight,

792
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,720
were they?
Well, that's.

793
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,840
Just in the last year, I've
worked my tail off with working

794
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,400
with the current state's
attorney and getting my.

795
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,280
Record cleaned up.
Records sealed.

796
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,320
Now there's a difference between
sealed and expunge.

797
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:49,240
Expunge means it's gone, All the
courts can see is the docket

798
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:54,640
number.
Stealed means only the courts

799
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,040
and law enforcement can see the
convictions.

800
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,720
OK.
Oh, OK, so, but so an employer

801
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,640
going to get hired with somebody
background checks your your, the

802
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,440
reason you're doing that is so
you can get back to life and get

803
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,880
a job and be a productive member
of society.

804
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,040
That's the state side, the
federal side.

805
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:22,400
There is no remediation.
In other words, you cannot get

806
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:29,040
any charges removed with the
exception of a presidential

807
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,000
pardon, which I've been trying
to get for 15 years.

808
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,200
So once you have a federal
conviction, that's it, you're

809
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,880
done.
It's on your record forever,

810
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,320
correct.
That's.

811
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:44,080
OK, so, so we, we, we, we
started this, this episode of

812
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:49,160
the Chris and Mike Show.
There was no underlying drug

813
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,080
use.
There was no underlying.

814
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,920
You never had.
A drug addiction right, right,

815
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,000
right.
That's why I'm bringing that's

816
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,320
why I'm bringing it up, man.
There's no drug use.

817
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,520
There is no alcoholism.
You just did this shit for the

818
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,400
thrill.
You you got, you got high off

819
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,960
the ACT like.
I have some good friends that

820
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,200
have told me that have had
affairs, that have had a rush

821
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,160
doing that.
Yeah, I can.

822
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,280
I can, you know, I can empathize
with them.

823
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,240
I'm like, yeah, I got a rush
driving 130 drivers.

824
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,320
It's there's a rush.
Well, yeah, because you're

825
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,840
breaking the law and.
And it's that is it the rush?

826
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,400
Is it the rush of is it OK, I
don't have to ask this question?

827
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,920
Is it is it is it is the rush
from the ACT itself or is it the

828
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,960
rush from the fact that, you
know, you can possibly get

829
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,520
caught and get just, you know,
screwed over from a, from a

830
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,000
legal standpoint, like, like you
steal a car, right?

831
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,080
You don't let's go to the 130
miles an hour thing, right?

832
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,960
You're doing 130 miles an hour.
Mike's got 120 miles an hour in

833
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,600
his car.
I'm sure I've I've, I've, I've

834
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,080
hit, I've hit that.
I don't think I've ever hit 130

835
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,720
but I've my wife's SUV.
Every now and then I look down

836
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:02,800
like holy shit I'm doing 100 but
you can't tell.

837
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,000
I love.
But I don't, I didn't purposely

838
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,360
go out.
I'm going to do 100 miles an

839
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,200
hour.
So did you purposely go out like

840
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,000
I'm going to get this thing to
130 just for as long as I can?

841
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,240
Yeah, It was that thought.
Was that the rush?

842
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,000
Wanted to see how fast that
could go.

843
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,840
OK, so that that was the rush to
100 and. 30 miles an hour.

844
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,520
Oh yeah.
Kudos to Dodge.

845
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,520
That's that's fantastic.
So it's so it's the the ACT

846
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,480
itself is the adrenaline rush
and the high that you get doing

847
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,560
performing that act of whatever
it is.

848
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:35,320
Yeah, OK.
So.

849
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:41,080
I listen to a lot of drug
addicts when I was in prison

850
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,800
and.
Obviously all.

851
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,480
Have the same they all say.
They all say the same thing.

852
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,080
I just need one more fix.
I just need.

853
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,000
I just want to do a one more
talk and that's the way I was

854
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,680
like I just want to go 131 more
time and then I'll stop.

855
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,760
I just want to steal one more
car then I'll stop.

856
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,680
I just want to drive off without
paying without just one more

857
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,080
time, then I'll stop.
It's the same.

858
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,120
That's how we do life if.
You want it to feel like it felt

859
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,240
the first time.
That's every drug addicts

860
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:12,360
mantra.
I always wanted it to feel like

861
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,120
it did the first time.
You're never going to get that

862
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,320
again.
It's just that's the dragon,

863
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,360
right?
You're chasing the dragon.

864
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,200
So I don't experience that
because it's not a drug.

865
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,240
Right, right.
But, but, but I think what

866
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:32,720
Mike's alluding to is, is like
you said, you did the drug

867
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,840
addicts that you listen to the
drug stories do one more time,

868
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,280
just one more time, just one
more time.

869
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,200
You know, like I knew somebody
that was was it got to the point

870
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,480
in their heroin abuse and meth
abuse.

871
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,480
It wasn't so much the high they
were chasing.

872
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,600
It was the thrill of sticking
the needle in their arm to see

873
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,960
if that was going to kill them
or not, as fucked up as it is.

874
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,080
So it wasn't, there wasn't, they
weren't no longer chasing the

875
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,200
high.
They were chasing the adrenaline

876
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,720
was when the needle pierced.
Because then you don't know what

877
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:58,600
happens after that.
That was that high act of doing

878
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,600
it, right.
So that's kind of what I was

879
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,040
getting at.
It's the act of doing it that

880
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,920
was getting you that, that
endorphin rush, the dopamine.

881
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,280
Rush whatever you want to call.
Right, right.

882
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,320
It was, it was I can like a
confidence man, like right.

883
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,440
I can go con this guy out of,
you know, a grand or 100 grand.

884
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,440
It doesn't matter.
I'm still conning somebody,

885
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,640
manipulating them, controlling
them to get what my end game is,

886
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,680
which is this.
And for them, it's not the end

887
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,800
game, it's the chase through the
whole.

888
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,680
It's a chase for sure.
Yeah, yeah.

889
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,640
It's like the guys I've told you
about that have the affair.

890
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,360
There's a rush, you know?
Yeah.

891
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,000
Else doesn't know I'm cheating.
Can I get away with it?

892
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,880
You know, I'm just going to tell
one lie and you know, I'll.

893
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,720
I'll get away with it.
She won't know where I'm going.

894
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,720
And a large majority of those
people, which is crazy, but a

895
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:44,880
large majority of them would
tell you after it's over they

896
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,640
feel horrible, right?
Yeah, yeah, because in the

897
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,280
conscious, it's kind of like
shoplifting, right?

898
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,160
You shoplift, just see if you
can stick it to the man, right?

899
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,640
Can I get away with it?
And then you kind of just.

900
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,160
But they chase that dopamine
high, right, versus the negative

901
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,920
feelings they have afterwards.
The dopamine is far more

902
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,240
rewarding than the negative
feelings are afterwards, right?

903
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,160
Yeah, I think any addict in your
situation, Matt, I think we were

904
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,200
all in the same boat in that,
you know, we fell on the wrong

905
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,360
side of that adrenaline rush.
Just talking.

906
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,680
Be right back.
Oh, OK.

907
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,440
Absolutely.
I mean, if I hadn't ever done

908
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,680
this, I hadn't ever gotten that
rush, there would be no need to

909
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,400
steal the car.
Right.

910
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,520
And you said it in the beginning
of the show, Chris.

911
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,840
And I got up on that stage
because it was an adrenaline

912
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,920
rush.
Because if you think about it,

913
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,720
what gave I used to think about
this consciously, What gave me

914
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:42,680
the right to even be up there,
right?

915
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,280
Why am I any better than the
people who are standing in the

916
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,760
crowd?
My mind works really weird.

917
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,440
So I think things all the way
through to the down to the bone,

918
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,080
right?
How does this work?

919
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,600
So I would consciously, I would
feel like I shouldn't be up

920
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,600
there, but then I would be
reminded that I had a talent

921
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,440
that very few people had, and
these people came to see me play

922
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,480
and snap out of it and do it
right.

923
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,120
That was my adrenaline rush.
I like the volume.

924
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,400
I like being up there with my
brothers and doing something

925
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,680
that very few people can do.
Right.

926
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,760
So I'm glad that my adrenaline
rush was a positive experience

927
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,080
until I became a drug addict.
So that was a negative side, of

928
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,920
course, and that I fell into the
same boat that you did.

929
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,680
And I could have just as easily
gone down that road.

930
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,840
You know, I can think of an
evening in particular.

931
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,240
IA 100% would have ended up in
prison.

932
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,080
It was just whatever the the
universal line that night.

933
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,240
And I got to get away with
something that I shouldn't have.

934
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:44,080
But I had resigned myself to the
fact I was going to end up going

935
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,720
down the same Rd. you did right
in that moment in time.

936
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:50,240
I said this is it, you know, my
train just stopped.

937
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,400
The party came to an end.
Whatever, you know, my mother

938
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,160
would tell you it's divine
intervention.

939
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,280
I would just tell you that the
stars aligned.

940
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:02,040
Whatever.
You know, they didn't find the

941
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,920
drugs.
They didn't notice that I had

942
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,640
been up for seven days and I
drove away.

943
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,800
That's why I feel for you.
I could have just as easily

944
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,240
ended up in that position.
So I'm glad that he's finding

945
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:18,480
people who have been down this
road.

946
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,680
It's near and dear to my heart.
I could have just as easily been

947
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,560
there.
I just want you to know that you

948
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,640
know I'm no better than you.
You're no better than me.

949
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,960
Chris is no better than.
We're all human beings.

950
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,480
You know, Everybody deserves a
chance to right the ship and do

951
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,480
things the right way.
And I'm so glad that Chris

952
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,960
brought it up again.
You didn't hurt anybody.

953
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:43,680
Nobody was affected in any way.
Nobody showed up and said Matt

954
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,960
ruined my life and I will never
be the same.

955
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,120
Not once.
You stole a car and you stole

956
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,800
some people's identity, but they
never got hurt because you did

957
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:54,800
the work.
Correct?

958
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,360
You weren't stealing money from
them.

959
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,600
It's not like you're a pilfering
their Social Security.

960
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,720
Right.
That's important for these

961
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,760
people that are listening to
this show to know when they go

962
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,240
back and listen to it again
because that's what I would do

963
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,920
if I got to this point and I had
a different opinion.

964
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,040
I feel for you dude.
I'm I'm so glad you came on here

965
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,480
to tell your story.
Where?

966
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,640
Where is your life at this
point?

967
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,200
Well, I'm trying to my story, so
nobody has to go through what I

968
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,120
went through, I wrote.
My You wrote a book.

969
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,480
It was.
Cathartic.

970
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,920
And I wanted to share that this
the kind of situation just

971
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,040
doesn't occur in Chicago.
It happened in a small town in

972
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:43,680
Vermont.
You know, I haven't even spoken

973
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,160
about Aaron Noble, who is the
former chief of police of

974
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:51,120
Shelburne, who I also believe
was a key instrument and why I

975
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,680
was persecuted so heavily.
That individual received a

976
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:59,320
$200,000 payout in 2022 to just
go away.

977
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,000
So yeah, you wrote a book about
this, right?

978
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:05,960
I wrote a book called Bully
Behind Bars, A gay Christian

979
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,240
Trump supporter goes to prison,
and I outline all of it.

980
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,720
OK, yeah, but so when I say
title, by the way, right when

981
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,120
we.
That I know in my life that

982
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:23,200
would identify people in high
level zits like I do, OK.

983
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,040
So let's, so we want to, we want
to, we want to pitch your book.

984
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,080
I don't want you to give the
book away because we don't, we

985
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,520
want people to go buy the book
and read it.

986
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,160
So your book is basically a
summary of everything you've

987
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:33,760
shared with us for this last
hour.

988
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:36,120
Well, it starts with my
childhood.

989
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:40,440
I mean, we haven't OK my
childhood, but sure it it was.

990
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,520
I was bullied throughout most of
my.

991
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,840
Right, Don't give it away.
Don't don't give away all the

992
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,600
stuff because we want people to
buy your stuff When people, when

993
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,960
that's the thing like love that
you wrote a book, but I don't I

994
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,640
want people to buy your book.
So he's, he's so right.

995
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:59,000
When we do this real quick, when
people are selling a book, you

996
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,240
don't want to give too much away
because obviously we want people

997
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:05,320
to go buy your book.
On the flip side, when people

998
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,840
are promoting music, we want
them to play the shit out of it,

999
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,800
right?
Because people gravitate towards

1000
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,800
music they've heard.
They won't buy your book if you

1001
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,720
tell them the whole story.
He's 100% right.

1002
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,200
Right.
That's why I wasn't cutting off

1003
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,240
to be a jerk.
I just, I want people to go buy

1004
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:23,000
your book.
So where can we find the book?

1005
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,760
It's on Amazon, it's so
published.

1006
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,200
Which?
Is a lot harder than.

1007
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,280
It is agreed.
You both think.

1008
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:31,760
And what's the book called
again?

1009
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,280
Bully behind bars a gay
Christian.

1010
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,880
Trump's hold on, hold on.
Bully behind bar There it is.

1011
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,640
Second one.
It's awesome.

1012
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,360
OK, hold on.
Well, there's oh, there it is.

1013
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,880
OK, all right, hold on.
I'm going to share this because

1014
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,640
this is what we do.
It's, it's, you know, it's

1015
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,280
funny.
When I typed it in, all kinds of

1016
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,480
Trump, Trump supporting stuff
popped up.

1017
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,480
So there it is.
Boys and girls bullied behind

1018
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:58,840
bars.
A gay Christian Trump supporter

1019
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,600
goes to prison.
Release paperback February 13th,

1020
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,320
2022 Matthew Melvin.
This is Matthew Melvin.

1021
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,200
There's a little synopsis, which
if you have been paying

1022
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,920
attention to the show the whole
time, that's, that's, you know,

1023
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,720
good synopsis there.
Well, here's the back cover,

1024
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:17,600
which is always fun.
There's Matt.

1025
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,400
Hi, Matt.
Hey, we know that dude.

1026
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,760
Yeah, how?
How long is the book?

1027
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,720
How many pages?
137.

1028
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,040
OK, that's a good read then.
That's a nice read.

1029
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,560
Congratulations on writing that,
by the way.

1030
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:30,720
That's.
Yeah, absolutely.

1031
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:32,960
How how cathartic was that
experience?

1032
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,880
Was it was it, was it good to
purge and kind of just get it

1033
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,000
off your your soul?
It was.

1034
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,040
Yeah, Now once since that's come
out, because that was that was

1035
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:47,080
Oh, well, it's it's almost what,
five years now, right.

1036
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:52,160
When it came out four years.
What was the response for people

1037
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,960
that you because it again, don't
drop names, but the people that

1038
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,480
you talk about in the book, did
it shine some light on some of

1039
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,960
the corruption and some of the
weird things that were going on

1040
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,400
surrounding your cases?
Did you get any, did you get any

1041
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,120
kickback from from people like,
oh, Matt, you're just full of

1042
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,520
shit?
Or was it like, wow, that's

1043
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,840
that's crazy.
Yeah, I mean, I had people in

1044
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:25,120
the community who asked me why I
would write a book that was self

1045
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:30,320
and aggrandizing.
Oh, really?

1046
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,040
Yes.
So they didn't hear the message,

1047
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:37,360
obviously.
Obviously, so are you.

1048
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,720
You should try to get this thing
to a, you know, a Netflix

1049
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,440
documentary.
Man, that would be interesting

1050
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,560
your.
Story is so yeah, I couldn't

1051
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,040
agree with you more 100%.
Your story's compelling, man.

1052
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:50,960
It just is.
I feel for you.

1053
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,440
Yeah.
I did way worse in my life as a

1054
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,800
drug addict and could have hurt
somebody way worse than you ever

1055
00:57:58,800 --> 00:57:59,920
did.
Yeah.

1056
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,480
I'm just fascinated that the
fact that you didn't, it's not

1057
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,920
like you stole that car, drove
130 miles an hour and kill a

1058
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,200
family on the road, right?
Yeah, no, I heard all that too,

1059
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:08,280
by the way, when I had to step
away.

1060
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:09,600
I heard your entire
conversation.

1061
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,040
That was very poignant.
The the the elements you were

1062
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,400
touching, touching on there.
Mike and Matt.

1063
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,200
Yeah, I just, I feel.
For him, I just feel like I've

1064
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,280
done way worse in my life that
could have ended up in the same

1065
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,480
position and it would have been
warranted and justified, right?

1066
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:29,320
I was doing the supposedly the
crimes, but this guy didn't hurt

1067
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,800
anybody ever.
Did you had did so with and

1068
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,360
again, I don't want to give away
too much of the book, but with

1069
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,000
was this learned behavior or was
this just something you realized

1070
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,600
one day as a kid?
Like, Oh, if, if if I go, you

1071
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,200
know, steal this Twinkie from
the store.

1072
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,240
I get it for free.
And then, oh, there's that rush.

1073
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,400
You know, there's the first
time, the first time you did

1074
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,840
something bad, you know,
everything went off and you had

1075
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,840
like, oh, oh, I like how this
makes me feel.

1076
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,360
Yeah, it was an adrenaline rush,
no question.

1077
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,160
OK.
And it wasn't it wasn't.

1078
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,320
So back to what I started with
the question.

1079
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,440
It wasn't learned behavior.
Like you didn't have somebody in

1080
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,520
your life that was was doing
those type of things and you

1081
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,520
were just do you remember the
first thing you did?

1082
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,680
Yeah, Remember the first thing
you grew up in this.

1083
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,760
Family.
Nobody in my family's ever been

1084
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,240
to prison.
I don't have any generational

1085
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,320
history of people going to
prison.

1086
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,680
Mom and dad were married.
Say that again.

1087
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,720
Your mom and dad lived in the
house.

1088
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,440
Went work for 50 something
years.

1089
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:36,120
My father's a conservative and
my mother's been is a liberal.

1090
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:41,600
30 years of indoctrination from
the University of Vermont can

1091
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,920
really do a number on anybody.
OK, what kind of relationship do

1092
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:52,520
you have with them?
It's always been fractured.

1093
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,720
And.
I got saw a lot of blowback from

1094
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,840
family members about sharing my
story.

1095
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,840
I can see that.
I can see that it's hard enough

1096
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:09,520
in this world to to be openly
gay and then to be just put it

1097
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,720
out there in your book, you
know, bully behind bars, a gay

1098
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,200
Trump supporter.
You know here I am world, right?

1099
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:16,960
And then?
That's who he is.

1100
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,400
Wow.
Yeah, I deal with people that

1101
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,000
will send me a message on
Instagram.

1102
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,160
You can't.
I've never heard of a gay

1103
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,240
Christian.
Oh yeah.

1104
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:27,680
OK.
Oh yeah.

1105
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,400
Good for you, I have.
I had another guy who said.

1106
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,200
Well, now you should see.
Well, now you.

1107
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,360
Have there's whole churches of
them move to the city.

1108
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,560
You freaking yeah.
Backwards.

1109
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,200
Explore the country a little
bit.

1110
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,360
There's yeah, it's big.
I've just seen so many

1111
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,880
ridiculous things that come
through social media about.

1112
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:49,800
Oh, I don't doubt that.
Just.

1113
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,120
Ignore that shit.
It's Here's the thing, if I

1114
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,920
you've never experienced
something, it's foreign to you.

1115
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,040
Or if you can't say it to my
face.

1116
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:01,080
Right.
Yeah.

1117
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,120
You know you want to come and
say something to my face.

1118
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,960
Keyboard warriors.
You you won't do it.

1119
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,640
Yeah.
No, no, no, we had, we had sit.

1120
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,840
Behind a computer and you're a
cow.

1121
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,240
That's why I always tell people
if you have an issue with me,

1122
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,240
come tell it to my face.
You know what coward does?

1123
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:22,280
Coward blocks you.
That's what a child does.

1124
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:23,680
Yep, agreed.
Well, that's.

1125
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,320
Children, That's that's the
world.

1126
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:32,560
Don't you realize that when you
block somebody, you are holding

1127
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,520
yourself hostage because you're
not going to, You're not going

1128
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,880
to forget about it?
Oh, that's you're.

1129
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,440
Not going to forget when you
block somebody.

1130
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,280
That's I like that.
That's cool.

1131
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,400
You're.
So right man, that that is very

1132
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,200
cool and I've thought about
that.

1133
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:49,960
Like, yeah.
If somebody blocks me, I'm like,

1134
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,080
good for you now you're never
going to know what I'm doing,

1135
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,760
and that's going to bother you
forever.

1136
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,040
Right.
I win.

1137
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,000
Yeah.
Because it doesn't bother me at

1138
01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:59,680
all.
I'm going to sleep.

1139
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:02,480
I might not sleep, but it won't
be because of that.

1140
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,600
Well.
Until I forgave the people who

1141
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:12,240
have done me wrong.
That's where I finally got free

1142
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,720
of the anger, hatred, hostility
I have.

1143
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,800
Don't gloss over that point.
That is so true.

1144
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,920
Forgiveness is for you.
It's not for the other person.

1145
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,600
It's so that you can move on.
Because when you don't forgive

1146
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,440
you allowing somebody else to
live rent free in your head.

1147
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,920
That might be the most poignant
statement you've made in this

1148
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,880
entire show.
Man, that is so true.

1149
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,520
Yeah, so let's leave the most
poignant statement made in the

1150
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,800
show with that and share your
book again, boys and girls, You

1151
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,520
want to find Matt Melvin's book?
It's behind Bullied behind bars.

1152
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,960
A gay Christian Trump supporter
goes to prison.

1153
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,960
Find on an Amazon 2399
paperback.

1154
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:57,200
It looks like it's 315 pages.
I wonder where I got 137 but.

1155
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,400
It's OK still, you know, 313 is
still good, man.

1156
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,240
It's, you know, we still, we
still want people to buy your

1157
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,240
book because that's where you
came on here.

1158
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,040
Not only Share your story, but
for us to kind of, you know,

1159
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,880
promote you and and get get get
your message out in your book

1160
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,760
out there.
Is is there any any plans to

1161
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,400
write another one?
Did you get Oh I?

1162
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,000
Get asked that all the time.
Right.

1163
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:20,200
Well, that's why I asked it,
man.

1164
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,160
If you follow me on Instagram,
Bully behind Bars, you can see

1165
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,800
poems I've written.
OK, right on.

1166
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:28,800
Nice.
We'll follow you.

1167
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:30,480
We'll make sure we follow you
for sure.

1168
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:32,920
Are you following us on
Instagram?

1169
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,360
I don't think so, no.
I don't even know if I know your

1170
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:42,360
Instagram handle.
Yeah, I'll send you an e-mail.

1171
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,080
Usually when, when people, when
people reach out to come to the

1172
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,800
show, I send them a the first
e-mail kind of explains

1173
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,920
everything with all our social
media links.

1174
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,760
So I'll send you that, you
respond back with your stuff and

1175
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,280
then we'll, we'll help, we'll
share all your stuff, you know,

1176
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:59,040
vice versa.
Or you can go to the Chris and

1177
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,440
mikeshow.com, anybody can do
that and you can get to every

1178
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,040
social media link we're on from
there so.

1179
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,480
Yeah.
Because I definitely want to

1180
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:08,880
follow you.
Mikeshow.com.

1181
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,720
Yes, everybody go to the Chris
and mikeshow.com.

1182
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,280
Yeah, Mike just made that over
the holidays.

1183
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,360
I'm pretty damn proud of it,
turned out.

1184
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,200
One of those things, man, Matt,
it's been great talking to you,

1185
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,160
man.
You have just an amazing story.

1186
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:22,600
I'm going to buy your book
because I think it'll be a

1187
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,520
fascinating.
Absolutely need to get you get

1188
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,880
you a documentary going on, man,
because that'll be a hell of a

1189
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,600
story to watch.
How comfortable do you feel?

1190
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,920
How comfortable do you feel
talking about your childhood?

1191
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,640
0 to obviously you wrote it in
the book, right?

1192
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,640
Would you come back and like,
give us that?

1193
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:43,920
I'd like to hear your back story
that led you.

1194
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,640
Chris kept trying to get that
out of you, but I think that

1195
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:51,240
story is another hour or so.
Probably, yeah.

1196
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,400
I didn't know where you where
you, what you were trying to.

1197
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,960
No, you're no, you're no this.
You're fine.

1198
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,560
I would just like to have you
back if you would be willing to

1199
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:05,560
talk about that, because I think
that's important for people to

1200
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,080
understand.
Like he was getting at what

1201
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,480
makes somebody the person they
become, right?

1202
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,440
Right, like I have like like I
had, we won't go down the path,

1203
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,320
but I had a a very unique
childhood recall and I could

1204
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,240
have gone two ways.
I went the way I went.

1205
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:22,520
I could have gone the other way.
100%.

1206
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,680
Which would have been dark and
destructive.

1207
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:29,600
And but that's the thing.
So you know, I am who I am today

1208
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:33,120
because my childhood shaped me
to the person I was.

1209
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,160
And I was lucky enough to have
have the creative outlet pulled

1210
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:39,000
out of me from a teacher and
then realized, oh, I can use

1211
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:43,240
that to purge all the darkness.
The world is lucky too, because

1212
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,760
I don't think what they
understand is if you had gone

1213
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,200
down the other side, that would
have been ugly for the world.

1214
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:52,400
Because you're talking to a guy
who will self admit he lacks

1215
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,200
empathy, right?
That's something he learned

1216
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,440
through his life, but it wasn't
built into him.

1217
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:03,160
So he's, he's going to react
differently than most people to

1218
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,560
situations that are unique, you
know, to a lot of a lot of

1219
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,280
folks.
So had he gone down the dark Rd.

1220
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,280
It would have been ugly for
sure.

1221
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:12,840
I think that's a little bit more
point.

1222
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,440
You would have been notorious.
Darkness, man.

1223
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,160
So Matt Melvin, go on Amazon,
find his book The bully behind

1224
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,320
bars.
A a gay Christian Trump

1225
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,280
supporter goes to prison.
And seriously, if you want to

1226
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,240
come back on and we can talk
about the, you know, what led up

1227
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,280
to 2004, that would be
fascinating.

1228
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,360
Then again, like Mike said, it's
how comfort you are talking

1229
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:36,520
about that.
And again, we don't want to give

1230
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,520
away too many elements from the
book.

1231
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:39,840
So we want people to buy your
book.

1232
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,000
I'm more interested in the
dichotomy of his family to him.

1233
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,680
Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I think
it'll be fascinating too.

1234
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,480
So we'll, if you're down with
that, we'll we'll connect off

1235
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,560
the show and and set it up.
Have to come back on and we can

1236
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,240
spend another hour or so picking
your brain and having a good

1237
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,440
conversation.
Does that sound good?

1238
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:58,640
Right on.
Thank you so much.

1239
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,200
So, yeah, thank you very much.
Dude, this this was more than I

1240
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:03,680
hoped it would be.
When I read your biography, I

1241
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,240
was like, oh, this will be fun,
you know?

1242
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:06,960
And it was.
It exceeded my.

1243
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,400
Expectations too.
The hour went by like that,

1244
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,040
which is which tells you how
great the conversation was.

1245
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:14,680
We are in the show like this
every time.

1246
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,240
So if you're if you're
depressed, you're feeling

1247
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,560
suicidal, go find somebody to
talk to you.

1248
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,560
If you can't do that, go scream
in a pillow.

1249
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,120
Go out and run.
Go work out.

1250
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,320
Do something that purges your
mind of that frustration that

1251
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:26,760
you're feeling and the sorrow
that you're feeling.

1252
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:29,800
Text 988.
Somebody is there standing by

1253
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,880
waiting to talk to you, to help
talk you off that Cliff.

1254
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:33,840
Tomorrow's a better day because
you wake up in it.

1255
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,120
Somebody does love you, even
though you don't believe that.

1256
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,560
So be mindful of that.
And until next time, we'll see

1257
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,400
you on the Chris and Mike Show.
I'm Christy's Mike, and that's

1258
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,040
Matt Melvin.
Thanks, everybody.

1259
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,560
Lovely brother.
Love you too man Thanks Matt.