#126 - Harold Wilen - Hall of Fame Boxing Trainer

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What's up there, boys and girls?
This is Chris and Mike show.

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We have a boxing Hall of Fame
legend coach Harold with us on

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today.
Super excited about that because

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Mike and I are huge boxing fans
and we've we've had we've had a

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boxer on the show and Harold
just happens to be his coach.

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So it's kind of full circle,
right?

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Hello.
Hello.

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Did you hear any of that,
Harold?

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He talking about jig?
Yeah, I was just making sure you

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heard what what I was saying
because because I said hello and

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and it was just everybody was
quiet.

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OK, I don't actually coach Jig.
He has.

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He has another coach that works
with him sometimes to my club,

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but not in these days.
Got you.

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But you you, you know, jig,
which is kind of cool, right?

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And and ash.
Yes, yes, I've been in Jig's

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corner on 2.
That's awesome.

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Yeah, that's way awesome.
So so you've been coaching.

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We talked to you and I were
chatting before we jumped on the

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show.
You've been coaching since 1964,

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I believe you said. 69. 69 right
on and and so were you a boxer

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previous to that or you just got
into the coaching game?

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1964 to 1970 in New York City.
Oh wow, right on.

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So how many fights did you have?
I had 25 fights.

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OK.
And what?

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What's your record?
Once you won and four with six

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stoppages.
Cool.

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Are you by stoppages?
Meaning you knocked them on

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their butts.
Or the referee stopped them when

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they were yeah.
Yeah, when?

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When?
When Harold was bringing the

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poor.
Was your nickname Harold?

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Harold what?
No nickname at that time.

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No, just Harold.
Yes.

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That's cool.
So take us through a a typical

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work out when you when you have
a boxer in your gym, what are

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you doing with them?
What's kind of like the routine

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there?
How do you start things off and

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you know the length of time you
work and all that stuff?

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Because it blew our mind when we
talked to Jig about how much he

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works out and how much he
trains.

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And it's kind of like just the
the behind the scenes of a

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boxer.
So I think Mike and I would both

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love to know the behind the
scenes from a coach, a boxing

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coach standpoint.
When I first saw start to work

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with the boxer in the room, the
first thing I do is the stance.

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How he holds body in space,
where his hands are, where his

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legs should be, where his
shoulders should be, where his

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knees should be.
And I'm an advocate of what I

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call the skinny stance, which
means the boxer, be he a

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right-handed or left-handed,
hides the middle of his body as

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best he can.
And that's how I position the

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boxer in the ring, so that his
left shoulder, if he's a right

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hand there is kind of almost
directly facing his opponent and

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his right shoulder is in back of
the his left shoulder.

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My bet his right shoulder is
back left shoulder so that the

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opposing boxer has very limited
access to the middle of his

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body.
So.

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Like this?
That looks pretty good.

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Yes, that makes sense, except
the left I'm.

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A professional now.
Except the left hand I like

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right underneath the left eye
higher.

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Higher like that.
Yeah, turn your fist.

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Turn your fist to the left the
other way.

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Your other left.
That's it, there you go.

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And the right hand, I like eye
level, actually touching the

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face on the side of the eye on
the side there.

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Yes, that's I've done all these
years when I first worked with a

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boxer.
All right, so if I get in the

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Street Fighter, just do this and
I start jabbing and then I start

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jabbing, right?
Way out of it.

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Talk your way out of it well.
Of course, talk.

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About.
That's my strategy too, Harold.

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Yeah, yeah, never, never come to
blows unless, you know, you just

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have no choice, right.
So, so you start work with a

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boxer, you get a stance the
basically the fundamentals, like

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everything else, right?
You got to have fundamentals for

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sure.
Are you hearing that weird sound

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like is that me?
Yes, it's it's me.

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You have an echo.
Oh, weird.

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OK, are you on the right
Internet?

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Yeah, yeah, OK.
I just, I didn't know it was me.

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That sounds like that's weird
because every time I say

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something I hear so, so sorry
about that people.

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Technical difficulties.
So you start with the

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fundamentals, which is obviously
key with any type of sports,

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right.
So how long does it take for you

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to ingrain that into the the the
new boxers mindset of this is

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how you stand, this is how you
position yourself?

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Is it, you know, is it a couple
days?

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Is it a couple months?
Well, every boxer is different,

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like every human is different.
So some internalize it

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immediately and some you keep on
having to emphasize it.

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OK, how long does it take for
you to, once you start training

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a fighter, to actually start
sparring with somebody?

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So like live action?
Again, everything is unique to

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the individual.
So sometimes they get it and

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they may be ready to spar within
a month and 1/2 or two months.

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There's no, no rush.
I emphasize to them that there's

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no rush in this.
I want to get you ready for the

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combative situation and some it
takes quite a few months.

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They're met maybe mentally
slower or have some other issue

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going on.
There's some situations that is

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not often talked about where the
particular individual grew up in

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an authoritarian household where
they have issues with listening

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to a male voice.
I found that sometimes.

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So I have to take that into
account that look, I'm not your

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daddy, I'm not your grandfather,
and I didn't perpetrate any new

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things upon you when you were
growing up, OK?

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So you have to kind of be a
psychologist as well.

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Oh, yes, yes.
Do you only train professional

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fighters or amateurs or?
Both.

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OK.
And the really rewarding thing

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is when you start with an
amateur and he progresses to be

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a professional, It's not your
everyday situation, right?

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Sometimes a coach just trains an
amateur and then they go

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elsewhere for the professional
career.

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Or the opposite.
Sometimes a professional trainer

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happens upon an amateur and you
didn't do his amateur training.

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Have you had any amateur
fighters that you coach turned?

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From Yes, I had one notably who
fought for the world title who

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only had three amid fights
before he turned pro.

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Went on to one of the most
famous shows in history, namely

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the fight in which Mike Tyson
bit off Evan the Holyfield's

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ear.
That gentleman that I just

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referred to who only had three
Mr. Fights, he fought on

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pay-per-view right after the
Mike Tyson bite fight incident.

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My guy fought for the WBO middle
weight championship.

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The world that night talking
about 1997.

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Right on.
And how'd he do?

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Oh yeah, I remember that fight.
Oh well, he had a weight issue.

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He had to lose weight in a short
amount of time.

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We got the notice of his fight
about two weeks before the

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fight, but we couldn't turn it
down.

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It's an amazing opportunity.
So he got stopped eighth round

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by the world champion, who was
25.

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Oh, and one at the time.
And I think given the

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circumstances, he did great.
That's awesome.

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Right.
How did he continue his boxing

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career?
I'm sorry.

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Did he continue his boxing
career?

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Yes.
He continued his boxing career

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after that, yes.
No more world title shots,

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however.
Have you kept track of how many

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people you've trained in your
career?

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I could just, I've often been
asked that question and I can

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only say that in terms of the
boxing club in general,

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thousands of people have walked
through the doors of my

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different locations in Sarasota
since I started doing it.

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But how many people I've
actually trained myself.

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I, I would say hundreds and
hundreds would be the best

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answer because I've been, you
know, like I say, since 1969.

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And I started in New York and
then New Jersey and then

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Florida.
That's where you're currently at

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is in Florida.
Yes.

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What's the name of your gym down
there?

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Sarasota Boxing Club.
Awesome.

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My Chris, I'm getting something
that says reconnecting and it's

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on, it's on Chris's screen.
Yeah, he froze up on us.

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Oh, OK.
There he is again.

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Now we have 2 Chris's.
Dude, I, I promise, I, I promise

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I have the right Internet going
on.

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I don't know why mine's being
difficult today.

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So what was just spoken?
It was lost during that time.

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No, we're still there.
Oh, I mean during the time a few

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minutes ago.
No, it's all good.

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Yeah, he just.
Didn't hear what you were

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talking about.
Yeah, yeah.

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Every now and then there's
technical issues on our side,

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Harold, so it's all good.
Yes, we're connecting between

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Illinois, Florida and Arizona
right now, so it's amazing this

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even works.
Yeah, and it's, it's today.

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It's on my side.
Harold, it's not you at all.

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For some reason my my side's
just being a pain in the butt.

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One of my probe is from Arizona.
Oh, right on.

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Superior.
OK.

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We know where that's at, yeah.
Yes.

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You remember Michael Carver
Hall?

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I do.
Yeah, we're trying to get him on

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the show.
He's he's local and I've been

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going back and forth with his, I
forget her, his, what does, what

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does he call her?
He's not a promoter like his.

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I don't know his liaison to get
stuff on.

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So he's all excited about it
because he follows me and I

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follow him back on social media.
And I was like, hey, want to

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come out of the show?
He's like, absolutely.

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Talk to, you know, this person
will set it up.

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So, you know, still waiting.
Michael, come on.

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Come on buddy.
So you said you were in the

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Boxing Hall of Fame, correct?
I didn't say it, but I am.

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Ash did it.
Ash told me that.

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Oh, Ash.
Told us.

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Yeah, yeah.
Is that as a coach or as a

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fighter, or both?
As a as a trainer, yes.

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Cool.
OK, I got in in 2015.

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How many?
How many boxers have you trained

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over the years?
Do you have any idea?

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That's what we talked about
while.

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You're oh, Dang it, sorry.
Hundreds and hundreds he.

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Says hundreds and hundreds.
Hundreds and hundreds, yes.

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OK.
And two of my boxes have also

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been inducted into the Florida
Boxing Hall of Fame.

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As fighters.
As fighters, the general that's

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huge fought right after the Mike
Tyson Holyfield ear biting

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incident.
He got 2018 cool and a female

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that won the world title in 2007
got in this year this past June.

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That's really cool.
She won the world title and then

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she retired as the number one
female heavyweight in the world

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when she had her last fight in
2020.

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Wow.
That's the way to go, right?

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Win the whole damn thing and
retire.

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Call it a day.
Yes.

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For some, for some anyway you.
Know boxers have a terrible

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track record of extending their
careers past when they did and

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some pay for it badly with their
being and very few instances

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when somebody first retired and
comes back do they do well.

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They need to retired but the ego
and and or the money is such

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that they they can't quit.
I could see that.

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So with with with what you do
and what you've and so you have

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this like just amazing knowledge
of fighters and boxers because

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obviously you're a trainer,
we're a boxer, etcetera.

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So I'm going to throw some names
at you and I want you to kind of

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give me like a a 32nd spiel of
what you think.

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So I grew up watching Marvelous
Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray

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Leonard, Thomas, the Hitman
Hearns.

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So in that era, right, which I
think was the, was the 70s or

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so.
Or 70s.

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Yeah.
So what was your of those 3

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00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,880
Hagler Hearns and and and Sugar
Ray?

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00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,080
Which one of those would you
have loved to have have been in

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00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,240
the corner with while they were
in their career fighting?

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00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,880
Sugar Ray.
Really.

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00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,920
Why is that?
Well, I said it topped by

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00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:16,120
fighters of all time and I got a
personal experience with him

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00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,160
when he was one of the
interviewers prior to the HBO

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00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,040
and pay-per-view telecast of the
gentleman that I referred to who

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00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,640
fought the on the pay-per-view
right after Mike Tyson bit off

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00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,000
Evan the Holyfield's ear.
So it was beautiful to have a

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00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,920
personal interviewing experience
with Sugar Ray.

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00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,960
Well, is he is he is as good of
a guy as he comes across in in

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00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,960
the media or is he, you know?
As good of a guy?

242
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:53,560
Yes, Yes he is.
So what do you what were your

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00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,120
thoughts about Marvelous,
Marvelous Hagler's as far as the

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00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:02,080
fighters concerned?
Credible fighter, an incredible

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00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:08,040
mindset who used to use the
phrase that's not grammatically

246
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,680
correct, but he said destruct
and destroy.

247
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,800
He was known for that for those
for that phrase.

248
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:22,040
His mindset was a a combative
fighter who wouldn't quit for

249
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,480
anything and is looking to knock
out his opponent.

250
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,520
And he had tremendous success
with that mentality.

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00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,600
And Tommy Hearns, who's
currently really medical

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00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,480
problems.
I don't know if you download

253
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:41,040
that.
Yeah, he he used to be not a

254
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,880
power puncher in the amateurs,
but the legendary coaches of all

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00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:52,280
time, Emmanuel Stewart worked on
his his form, his technique, and

256
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,560
he became a tremendous knockout
artist as a pro.

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00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,560
Right on.
And so Emmanuel Stewart's been

258
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,240
around that long, too.
He passed years ago.

259
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:04,960
Right.
But he was.

260
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,079
But yeah.
Yes.

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00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,480
So let's talk.
Let's talk promoters.

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00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:16,079
How shady was Don King?
Well, it if I have personal

263
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,560
knowledge of that.
Three fighters that I have

264
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:23,359
trained have been promoted by
Don King, including one

265
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:30,000
currently who Don had set up in
2024 for the WBC Cruiserweight

266
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,200
championship of the world.
Don King changed his mind.

267
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:40,040
My guy got depressed and wound
up in jail, still dealing with

268
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:46,040
that legal situation and
hopefully he could return to his

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00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:52,640
career as soon as possible.
But yeah, Don Don is going to be

270
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,240
94 in a few days and.
He's still promoting.

271
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,680
He's still active in the game.
That's crazy.

272
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,160
You don't hear his.
I don't hear his name anywhere.

273
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,920
Like you don't.
Because he's not one of the

274
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,360
major promoters anymore.
Gotcha.

275
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,960
His hand is still in the game,
OK.

276
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,680
That is so crazy.
And if my guy gets his legal

277
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:19,880
situation resolved, John King
and Christy Martin were partners

278
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,840
in promoting my guy.
OK.

279
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:28,160
So let me ask you this, If
somebody said you only had one

280
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,360
boxer to choose, who's the best
of all time?

281
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,520
Sugar Ray Robinson.
Really.

282
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,240
He had he had it all, including
charisma.

283
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,360
That's interesting.
That's not who.

284
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,880
I I wasn't, I wasn't expecting
either.

285
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,560
That's crazy.
Who would you guys put in that

286
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,120
position?
I don't have as educated of

287
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,360
guess as you do, but I would say
probably Floyd Mayweather.

288
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,160
OK.
Yeah, I I'd be be Floyd or

289
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,280
Tyson.
Just cause the guy never gets

290
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,760
hit.
Well, yeah, and, and Jig talked

291
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,080
about that with us.
Like he's, he's, we asked him

292
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,040
who his favorite boxer was and
he was like Mayweather.

293
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,960
And we're like, why?
He's like, 'cause he's the art

294
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,440
of being defensive.
Like he just doesn't get hit.

295
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,040
He doesn't take the big punches.
Yes, that's which I.

296
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,920
Never thought of until you talk
to a boxer, you don't think of

297
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,880
that aspect of it.
But the whole goal of being a

298
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,640
boxer is to hit and not be hit.
So, you know, when he said that,

299
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,960
it kind of made me realize, OK,
well, I could see how

300
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,800
Mayweather, you know, sustained
the career as long as he did

301
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,560
because legit, he never really
got hit.

302
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,240
He never really took big
punches.

303
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,720
The little rap against Floyd at
in the latter part of his

304
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,480
career, he chose boxers that it
will a little past their prime

305
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,480
when he fought them.
So it sounds like his management

306
00:19:53,640 --> 00:20:01,680
and him aspire to not put Floyd
in any kind of major danger,

307
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,480
even though you know he's he's
one of the top ten all time.

308
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,600
You can't deny that.
I never thought about that.

309
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,800
You're right, he did fight a lot
of fighters past their prime.

310
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,160
Floyd Manny Pacquiao, on the
other hand, who just fought

311
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,240
about a month ago.
Yeah, Really.

312
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,200
Oh, he's yeah.
OK, that's right.

313
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:27,920
Yeah.
And that was an important thing

314
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,200
that made him stand out as one
of the top fighters of all time.

315
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,440
What do you think about Tyson?
Well, in his earlier days when

316
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:47,320
he was worked with by the late
custom Auto and by oh, blanking

317
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:53,480
out on his name boy, boy, boy,
the white guy that took over for

318
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,120
custom Auto and really did great
things with Tyson those with the

319
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:00,600
great.
Agreed 100%.

320
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,000
Agreed.
And Don King kind of did them

321
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,360
wrong.
It was money issues.

322
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:13,400
And then I don't know if you've
ever read Mike Tyson's book.

323
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,320
He wrote a book.
He claims that before some of

324
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:24,320
his biggest fights, he was
drinking, drugging, womanizing.

325
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,160
Yeah, I heard that and still did
great in those fights.

326
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,800
But just imagine if he led a a
cleaner boxer's lives.

327
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,400
Right.
So I don't know, arguably I may

328
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,760
put him out of the top 10 if you
if he considered the latter part

329
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,280
of his career, but the early
part, he was an unstoppable

330
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:50,520
force beyond comprehension.
So I've, and again, Mike and I

331
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,520
are big boxing fans.
So obviously we've, I followed

332
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,600
Holyfield 2 when he was, you
know, in his prime and it was

333
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,200
always rumored and kind of the,
the whisper in the background

334
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,720
was Holyfield was a dirty
fighter.

335
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,880
And that's kind of what, at
least as far as I, I read and

336
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,320
heard and listened to about the
Holyfield Tyson ear biting fight

337
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,080
from a, from a training
standpoint, was Holyfield The

338
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,320
Dirty fighter?
And, and if you, and if so, was

339
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,960
that kind of the, the reason
Tyson bit his ear 'cause he was

340
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,200
tired of The Dirty fighting
coming across?

341
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,840
Cause Tyson to me would just,
you'd come up to Tyson, he'd

342
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,640
just start throwing his punches
and you know, he'd drop you

343
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,960
because he was just so powerful.
But when he, you know, fighting

344
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,040
Holyfield, because I think the
height difference and the reach

345
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,400
difference, I think there's a
lot of head butting stuff going

346
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,280
on.
Is that how you saw that in, in,

347
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,760
in those fights with them
together?

348
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,760
And, and if you could get in
Tyson's brain, is that why he

349
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,720
went in and just decided to take
a chunk out of the air?

350
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,520
I would think that Tyson was
telling the truth, that he

351
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,240
responded to the the head
butting of Holyfield and they

352
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,280
both had quote UN quote dirty
boxing reputations.

353
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:03,720
But over and over and above
that, Holyfield was an

354
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:09,560
incredible fighter, arguably in
the top ten and Tyson and

355
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,520
arguably in the top ten,
particularly in the early part

356
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,120
of his career, an incredible
fighter.

357
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,480
And the fact that Holyfield went
up from a cruiserweight to a

358
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,800
heavyweight and did so well.
Right.

359
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaks very well of him and and
his trainers.

360
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,520
Yeah, agreed.
What do you think about the

361
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,800
Lennox Lewis?
Oh, there's another one that's

362
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:41,600
slucked off by many people.
Yes, highly highly respect his

363
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,680
technique and unfortunately him
and Tyson couldn't get together

364
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,560
earlier in their effective
careers.

365
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,280
So when they did get together,
Lennox was just too much for

366
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,920
Tyson.
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,960
What about the now recent recent
heavyweight champions?

368
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,560
What do you think about Tyson
Fury?

369
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,120
I think he's a tremendous
fighter, yeah.

370
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,840
And there's talk of him doing
another fight with Usyk.

371
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,800
I don't know if I'm in love with
that.

372
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,800
I've saw Tyson Usyk showed his
superiority.

373
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:21,000
The Tyson Fury tremendous but no
doubt technically tremendous and

374
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,600
so awkward.
His awkwardness makes him helps

375
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,880
his game.
Sure.

376
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,240
What about the other one that
took Tyson down?

377
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,160
Buster Douglas.
Yes, Buster Douglas.

378
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:41,200
He had his run there for a while
and apparently he motivated by

379
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,160
his mother's death just before
the Tyson fight.

380
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,880
I think that carried him through
that.

381
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,960
What is arguably the greatest
upset of all time?

382
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,200
Oh yeah, big time.
Absolutely.

383
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,760
I was pissed.
It was so mad.

384
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,720
We all were.
We all were so mad when he

385
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,520
freaking got knocked down and
just, you know, he's crawling on

386
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,720
the ground grabbing his
mouthpiece and trying to stand

387
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,760
up.
I'm like, no what?

388
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,200
Are.
You doing man?

389
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,280
The invincible one went It was.
Yeah, it was just, I mean, you

390
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,360
know, we grew up in the era with
pay-per-view with Tyson.

391
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,880
It's like, OK, you know, you're
going to spend 100 bucks for for

392
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,520
two minutes, you know, and it
just, you know, that's how it

393
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,520
was.
So from a from, from again,

394
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,760
because you have such a long
tenured history as a as a, as a,

395
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,920
as a boxer and A, and a trainer
and a coach, how much of the,

396
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,080
the legal problems actually
follow the fighters like like

397
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,120
Tyson Mike and I've had the
discussion before about Tyson

398
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,720
and his and you know, the rape
Commission, things like that.

399
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,440
I'm a big believer if you're
going upstairs to, you know, a

400
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,760
professional athletes room, you
know what you're getting into.

401
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,880
So we don't have to go down that
path.

402
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,800
But is there a lot of a lot of
more of legal issues with

403
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,600
fighters?
It's not really out in public

404
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,920
just because of how they grew up
and where they grew up and, and

405
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,040
the systems they were put into
and, and you know, Tyson came

406
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,640
from a completely broken home,
right?

407
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,680
And if it wasn't for Cus
D'amato, who knows where he

408
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,960
would have ended up in life, you
know, so he took, he took Tyson

409
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,480
on a better direction to for his
life, obviously.

410
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,120
Do you see that a lot with, with
boxers that are coming in and

411
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,040
wanting to learn how to fight?
And they just have so much

412
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,360
demons and stuff, you know,
surrounding them.

413
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:23,720
They just can't get over that
hump.

414
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,240
Oh yeah, I've been dealing with
that in all the years that I've

415
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,760
been working with fighters, yes,
boxer and legal problems are are

416
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,120
sometimes like go hand in hand.
And is there techniques you've

417
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:41,040
done to kind of get them to get
through that and just focus on

418
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,960
let's get you out of that, that
part of your life and move

419
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,240
forward to something more
positive as as a pugilist as you

420
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,520
know, getting out there and
making money and and being a

421
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,440
professional fighter?
My.

422
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:59,600
My words are often directed in
that direction, but the bottom

423
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,680
line is the the boxer has to buy
it and he has to really

424
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:09,360
internalize and not be in the
legal system anymore.

425
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,200
He has to focus on the the
career that he has chosen.

426
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,040
And sometimes the trainer has to
the distance himself from a

427
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,400
particular boxer.
If the legal problems are such

428
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,320
that the boxer just can't shake
them, trainer has to make a

429
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,080
decision.
Yeah, because you don't want to

430
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,680
go down with them.
Right.

431
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,080
They have to do the work right?
Yes.

432
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,520
So do you ever so obviously, you
probably watch Rocky, right?

433
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,680
Yes.
OK, so how how realistic for for

434
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,040
people that that have never kind
of seen the true reality of, of,

435
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,800
of a trainer and a boxer
dynamic.

436
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,160
The the role that Mickey and
Rocky play in that in the

437
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,480
original movie was that was that
close to what it's truly like as

438
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,280
a boxer trainer relationship?
Or was that all movie theater,

439
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,800
you know, movie Hollywood, you
know, fluff.

440
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,400
Again, yes and no.
There are readers who do some

441
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:18,320
theatrical things like Burgess
Meredith did, and it's not that

442
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,840
realistic compared to other
boxing movies.

443
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,880
OK, OK, so what's a what's a
really good realistic boxing

444
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,680
movie that you watch like yes,
that captures the moment if.

445
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,000
You could help me with the name.
I'm blanking out a little bit

446
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,400
with Robert De Niro raging.
Bull.

447
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,760
Oh yeah, Raging Bull.
Great movie.

448
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,680
More authentic?
More authentic than.

449
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,440
Jake D'amato, right?
Was that the character, the

450
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:42,400
boxer?
Jake D'amato?

451
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,640
Raging Bull, Yes.
OK, Yep.

452
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:51,560
Yeah, that was a good one.
There was one with Robert Ryan,

453
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,040
the name of which I can't
remember now in the 40s, that

454
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:03,400
quite a realistic 1.
And so Body and Soul with the

455
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,960
late great actor again blanking
out on his name.

456
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:13,320
Now Body and Soul was pretty
realistic and in portraying the

457
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,720
role that the gangster world had
in in.

458
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,320
The setup is what you were
trying to think of with Robert

459
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,080
Ryan.
Yes, the setup.

460
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,520
And Kevin Rooney was Mike Tyson
second.

461
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,120
That's it.
That's the name.

462
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,960
Yep.
So the setup was the one that

463
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,280
that that kind of opens sheds
light on the Mafia's involvement

464
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,440
and organized crime in boxing.
Yes.

465
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,800
OK, I'll have to check that out.
1949 It'll be in black and

466
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:38,640
white, buddy.
Sure.

467
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,120
Well, so was Raging Bull, but
that was in the is in the what,

468
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,920
60s?
I think that was filmed or 70s.

469
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:43,720
That was.
A great movie.

470
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,320
That was a great movie.
But yeah, that was a great movie

471
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,280
for sure.
Who the who's who's the, the,

472
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,880
you know, the trainers that you
look up to Harold, as you were

473
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,240
deciding to kind of get into the
fight game and and training

474
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,440
aspect, who inspired you to do
what you do?

475
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,720
The aforementioned.
Emmanuel Stewart, Customato.

476
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:10,440
Well, Stewart stands out.
Ray Arcel, ARCEL who trained

477
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,840
Roberto Duran and many.
Oh, we forgot about him, Yeah.

478
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,040
Roberto Duran, man, what do you
think about Oscar De La Hoya?

479
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,120
Another good one.
As a fighter, you're talking

480
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:28,160
about OK.
Yeah, you can tell us what you

481
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,160
thought about him as a human
too.

482
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,200
That's fine.
He has a documentary out that I

483
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,720
don't know if you've seen that.
I heard man very, very.

484
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:45,880
It could be called Golden Boy.
OK, Mike is checking it out.

485
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,560
He.
Is he?

486
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:47,920
Is yeah.
I'm not ignoring you guys.

487
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:48,640
I'm checking.
You out?

488
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,320
No, we know.
The name, Oh, it is documentary.

489
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,800
Golden Golden Boy, you are
correct. 2023 documentary.

490
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:02,920
It's one season.
Yes, he he details in the

491
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,440
documentary that in some of his
biggest fights he was being

492
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,440
heavy before the fight.
He was what?

493
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,360
Drinking heavily, yes.
So as so here's I don't this

494
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,880
blows my mind like like football
players, baseball players, back

495
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,920
ball players, right, They they
all can kind of, you know, be

496
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,840
stupid and drink and shit like
that before games because it's a

497
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,720
team sport, right?
It's you have so many supporting

498
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,120
casts around you that you know,
the over the years it's been

499
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,240
chronicled about the drug use in
those sports.

500
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,240
And you know, like Pete Rose is
there.

501
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,840
You know, they would drink a cup
of pot of coffee and do speed

502
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,000
before they went on the field,
right.

503
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,880
But you had eight of the guys
playing with you.

504
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,280
So with boxing, you're like,
it's it's just you.

505
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,120
It's just you standing toe to
toe with somebody else who's

506
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,120
entire goal in that moment is to
knock your head off.

507
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,480
So I can't imagine going into a
fight drunk or hungover.

508
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,120
Yeah, there are those fighters
who are so cocky, I would use

509
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:08,360
that word as stupid cockiness,
that they think that their

510
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:14,760
skills are such that whatever
they imbibe would not affect

511
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,280
their fighting ability.
And sometimes that's hidden from

512
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:26,040
the trainer and trainer doesn't
know if a boxer drank before the

513
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,960
fight unless it comes out during
the fight that he does so badly.

514
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:36,600
And so he asked the boxer, hey,
what happened, coach, coach,

515
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,840
that whiskey was just too much
to and then it's too late that.

516
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:49,520
Just that just blows my mind.
Wow, OK boxers getting drunk

517
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,640
before the fight now did now now
in your career did you ever come

518
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,240
across somebody that actually
showed up to the to the to the

519
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,000
fight that was loopy?
To mine, no.

520
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:04,200
OK, OK, OK, OK, so so if they
showed up loopy and you knew it,

521
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,360
would you just knock them on
their ass or what?

522
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,040
Oh, it means that's just a
hypothetical.

523
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,760
I don't know what I would face
questions, frankly.

524
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,840
You just have to say, I hope you
know what you're doing.

525
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,680
Yeah.
At that point.

526
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,440
Or another issue, famously,
women in boxing don't get along.

527
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,600
So it's such that I had a
fighter, the aforementioned one

528
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,280
who fought for the world title
and promoted by Don King right

529
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:41,360
after he he faintlessly had a
argument with his girlfriend the

530
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:46,080
night before a big fight.
He was fighting for the state

531
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:52,240
title, Florida State title.
He was such a he was so out of

532
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,200
it mentally that in the corner I
couldn't get through to him in

533
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,280
between rounds.
And he lost that fight to a

534
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,960
fighter that he easily should
have beaten had he not had that

535
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,480
argument with his girlfriend the
night before the fight.

536
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,159
It just put him into a trance.
I'm sorry.

537
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,840
It just put him into a trance
where he wouldn't listen to

538
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,800
anything you were saying.
Trance.

539
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,320
Yeah.
His mind was such so heavily on

540
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,400
perhaps losing his girlfriend
and I couldn't get through to

541
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,639
him with my words.
And you encountered that more

542
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:27,880
than once where a woman screwed
up a fighter.

543
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,960
Oh yes, Oh yes, yes, yes.
Many, many women resent the fact

544
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:39,400
that their men are gone for so
many hours during the afternoon

545
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,639
or evening takes away from their
own time together.

546
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,679
And that meant sometimes is
perpetrated on the boxer and

547
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,239
he's perplexed what to do.
The same thing happens with

548
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,239
musicians.
Yeah.

549
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,080
Oh yeah.
Because you have to practice so

550
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,560
much.
It's the same concept.

551
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,240
The boxers at the gym, you know,
nobody sees the thousands of

552
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:06,200
hours that you're at the gym
practicing your craft.

553
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,000
They only see the two minutes it
took to knock the guy out,

554
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,200
right?
Yes, and I as a trainer, I faced

555
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,480
it in my own training experience
the the Wednesday.

556
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,160
Are you married to the gym
coach?

557
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,760
Is that what you want?
That's me.

558
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,520
So that's a tough one.
Can be a tough one.

559
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,000
Well, and, and you have to
realize, I mean least like MM

560
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,920
and I were in a band for years
and that's why he he can be able

561
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,520
to.
We can relate to that being away

562
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,680
from home and talking to my wife
every now and then, we talk

563
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,880
about those days in the band and
and she hated it because that

564
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,960
alone right there.
We we were always practicing, we

565
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,560
were always playing a show.
So I was gone and, you know,

566
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,440
virtually four or five nights a
week you.

567
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,040
Know yes.
Even though our first date

568
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,120
Herald, I told her exactly what
I was doing, what my intention

569
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,280
was as far as music was
concerned, that I wanted to be a

570
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,760
rock star.
That was the trajectory I wanted

571
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,360
to go with my life.
So I laid it out.

572
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,040
Date #1 like in the first hour
of the conversation.

573
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,840
So I was like, well, you, you're
new because I but.

574
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,520
You know what, man?
Nobody can understand the

575
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,720
concept that the three of us are
discussing right now until

576
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,120
you're in the middle of it,
right?

577
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,320
That's.
It you can say to somebody,

578
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,760
yeah, I have to practice four to
five nights a week and that's

579
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,160
going to be in perpetuity.
It's never going to end.

580
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,160
No.
And they don't understand till

581
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,640
they've dealt with it for a year
or two, you know, Then it's

582
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,720
like, oh shit, I only have
access to this person one or two

583
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:37,720
days a week.
Yeah.

584
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,720
Yeah, but that's how we make our
living.

585
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:41,480
So sure, it's a double edged
sword.

586
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,600
But the the ultimate would be if
if your wife wanted to get into

587
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,520
the band, right?
Right.

588
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,120
Sure.
Then you have Yoko Ono.

589
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,560
We know how that worked.
Now, never a good idea.

590
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,600
Never a good idea.
So.

591
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,840
So how long does how long do
you?

592
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,640
How long is a training session?
So you open your gym up at 4:00,

593
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:06,800
I come in there to train with
you.

594
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,400
How long is our session?
Depends on the day of the week.

595
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,200
Three days a week Tuesday,
Thursday and Saturday or

596
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,680
sparring days.
OK, so they, they get ready,

597
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:25,640
they get loose, they shadow box
and then they spar and they

598
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,040
probably leave not long after
they spar or they you know, they

599
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,120
do a floor workout for the
sparring.

600
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,040
Other days are strength and
conditioning days like Monday,

601
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:41,040
Wednesday, Friday and Sunday.
So they may spend the longer

602
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,120
time in the gym than on a
sparring day because you know,

603
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,920
you take blows and sparring and
you may you may not want to stay

604
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,120
that much longer.
You want to go home and rest and

605
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:52,520
eat.
Gotcha.

606
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,200
So we talk in two hours, four
hours.

607
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,320
Some stay the better part of
four hours and again, there's

608
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,000
there's no rule on that.
Every case is individual and

609
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,080
it's fine with me if they leave
after I feel they've done all

610
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,720
they needed to do on that
particular date, right?

611
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,800
Talking about sparring, how much
CTE have you encountered in your

612
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,120
life?
It's a, it's a question that's

613
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:29,000
unanswerable because generally
boxers, unless they're knocked

614
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:35,400
out in a professional fight, do
they actually get tested for

615
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:42,480
concussion and further than
that, but that definitely every

616
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:48,560
time the, the, the boxer gets
hit, there's, there's definitely

617
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,520
something that builds up in the
brain.

618
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,280
It's, it's unavoidable.
And the the brightest ones know

619
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,360
that, and the brightest trainers
know that, and they know how to

620
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,920
modulate the sparring according
sometimes according to that

621
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,880
reality.
That was gonna be my next

622
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,920
question.
How do you do that as a trainer?

623
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Well, at worst, I see a guy,
thank God, I haven't had this

624
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,320
situation basically never that
where the guy is stumbling on

625
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:26,160
his words or can't realize what
you're asking him that that's,

626
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,080
that's, that's a terrible
situation.

627
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,040
But again, there's only three
spark days a week.

628
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,040
I, I really watch how they're
how they're dealing in the ring.

629
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,720
If I see them getting hit too
much, I stopped the session.

630
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,760
I, I stop it and say, that's it
for now.

631
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:54,240
And then we go back to the world
of training again and teaching

632
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,640
them how to avoid the reason why
I had to stop this session.

633
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,840
The reason I asked that
question, Harold, is I listened

634
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,600
to a lot of MMA fighters talk
about their training camps and

635
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,120
it seems more and more of them
are giving up the sparring part

636
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,960
of it.
Giving up being a sparring

637
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,480
partner, you're saying?
Just sparring at all.

638
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:17,600
At all, right?
Just doing strength and

639
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,120
conditioning and they'll do like
jujitsu things that are not

640
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,760
going to require them to get
kicked or hit, right?

641
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,560
Because they claim they already
know how to do that.

642
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,120
That's why I asked that
question.

643
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,280
And you seem like you limit your
sparring so you're in the same

644
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,840
mindset.
Oh yeah, yeah, there are some

645
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,920
gyms that spar seven days a
week.

646
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,520
I'm not in that mindset and
another factor that's very

647
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,560
interesting that there's I have
seen no conclusive medical

648
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,920
evidence of this in, in amateur
boxing when you fight, you wear

649
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,960
a headgear and professional
boxing of you don't.

650
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,120
And my question is that again
has not been answered to my

651
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,160
satisfaction.
Does a headgear protect the head

652
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:12,560
from CTE or not?
Because there's a double impact

653
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,880
when you have a headgear.
The glove hits the headgear and

654
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,160
then the glove hits the head.
You're not the first person I've

655
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,400
heard say that.
Yeah.

656
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,480
Is it better than a glove just
hitting a head with no headgear?

657
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,560
The last guy I heard talk about
this said that basically he felt

658
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,640
like it was safer without the
headgear.

659
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:41,080
OK, I've had boxers and trainers
say that yes, headgear protects

660
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,240
against getting cut because of
how the headgear is positioned

661
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:48,560
on the face.
But again, does it protect

662
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,680
against brain damage?
I don't know.

663
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,040
So so.
Speaking of brain damage,

664
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:00,360
Muhammad Ali.
The word on him is that in his

665
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:06,920
sparring, preparing for a fight,
he let LET he let other boxes

666
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,480
hit him around the the head just
to show his ego how tough he

667
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:17,200
worked and and this punch.
But ultimately he wound up

668
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,760
paying for that.
The real fights, especially at

669
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,880
his peak, he didn't get hit at
all, hardly.

670
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,920
So you would think that his
training really did him in.

671
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,640
Yeah.
You know, this whole podcast, we

672
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,440
haven't mentioned Muhammad Ali.
So where does he stack up there?

673
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,600
Yeah.
He was my idol growing up.

674
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,760
Oh yes, big idol.
I think he was an idol to a lot

675
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,360
of people who weren't even
boxing fans just because of who

676
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,840
he was as a person for sure.
Right.

677
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,960
Yeah, like he that's, that's and
again, that's pre Internet, pre

678
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,120
social media.
And he was still known around

679
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,040
the world because of just who he
was and the person he was and

680
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,880
the character he was and his
charisma and his his presence

681
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,320
alone.
Yeah, you didn't have to know

682
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,080
one thing about boxing.
And you knew who?

683
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,880
Mohammed Ali.
Was exactly and take away the

684
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,880
the the the Vietnam protest part
of it.

685
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,400
He still was known as a boxer
because he was so dominant in

686
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,720
the sport.
Just, you know, George Foreman.

687
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:19,360
What do you think about George
Foreman, Harold?

688
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:20,800
Another great one.
Jeez.

689
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,360
Definitely one of the top 10
heavyweights of all time.

690
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:26,960
Yeah.
Yeah.

691
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,920
He recently passed before his
time.

692
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,760
I don't know how much CTE was
involved in his passing.

693
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,480
We never knew the.
I've never seen the exact cause

694
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,680
of death, have you?
I.

695
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,360
Have not.
I have not.

696
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,520
So let's let's let's rattle off
your top, your top, let's go top

697
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,440
five heavyweight champions of
all time.

698
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,960
In order or just the top five?
Top five.

699
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,800
Just your top five, Joe.
Joe Lewis, yeah.

700
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,560
Muhammad Ali.
Larry Holmes.

701
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,280
Oh, I forgot about Larry.
Who I met a few years ago.

702
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,440
It's a pleasure to meet him.
Nice.

703
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:20,560
And #4 would be Alexander Usyk,
who recently fought and, you

704
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,200
know, holds victories over Tyson
Fury and Daniel Dubois.

705
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,320
And I think highly of Alexander
Usyk.

706
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:38,480
And one thing to to think about
in his story is that back in the

707
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:44,520
50s, heavyweights like Rocky
Marciano and Floyd Patterson

708
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:50,280
weighed in the 108 lbs.
And Ustek comes up from

709
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,360
cruiserweight.
He fought guys who were 18190

710
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,960
when he was cruiserweight
champion of the world.

711
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:05,400
And because of that and the fact
that he could handle heavy guys

712
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,240
now, like Dubois was like 240 I
think when he fought him and

713
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:13,000
Tyson Fury was way up there, 280
or whatever.

714
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,360
He's an amazing, amazing,
amazing fighter.

715
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:31,500
And I put him in a top five for
the fifth one, possibly Joe

716
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:36,300
Frazier, because there's a
relatively short guy and having

717
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:42,680
a victory over Muhammad Ali as
well and his toughness, except

718
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,480
for when he fought George
Foreman, I, I may have to

719
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,560
include him in the top five.
OK.

720
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,080
That's a damn good list, that.
Is a really?

721
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,080
Good list.
What about the What about

722
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,280
cruiserweights?
Well, my guy who's currently

723
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,920
have he legal problems, he's a
cruiserweight.

724
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:15,160
OK, I put.
Definitely Van the Holyfield,

725
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,160
OK.
The real deal.

726
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,720
Real deal, Holyfield.
It was.

727
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,880
Great.
Name maybe Hamill, who was the

728
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,920
first cruiserweight champion in
the world.

729
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,800
Spelled like the animal camel.
Yeah.

730
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,480
Where of that guy?
No, you could look him up.

731
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,680
The cruiserweight division
didn't even exist.

732
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,400
So he was the first
cruiserweight champion.

733
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,440
Cruiserweight came in in the 70s
or the 80s, I'm not sure.

734
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,680
They didn't.
It used to be light heavyweight

735
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,200
and then heavyweight.
Gotcha.

736
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:55,760
OK.
Yeah, and otherwise I'm blanking

737
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,400
out frankly right now on the
other cruiserweights, but

738
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,720
Holyfield got to be about the
top.

739
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:01,840
Yeah.
Do you have any?

740
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,080
Like do you have any
featherweight favorite?

741
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,720
Oh, Willie, guys, yeah.
The little guys are fond to

742
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:10,960
watch.
What's his name?

743
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,360
Harold.
Willie Pep.

744
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,640
PEP.
OK, he was there.

745
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,560
Also almost impossible to hit
like Floyd Mayweather.

746
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:24,000
Him and Floyd Mayweather,
probably the top five defensive

747
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,640
fighters of all time.
This may be a legend.

748
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,600
I don't know.
I I've seen yes and no on it.

749
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,960
Willie Pep was once credited by
the judges with winning a round

750
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,560
without having thrown a punch.
Really.

751
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,920
Really.
Yeah, you can just check that

752
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,720
out.
That's a famous about Willie

753
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:47,880
Pep.
That has to be the best

754
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,160
defensive round of boxing in the
history of the world.

755
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:56,600
I'm telling you, telling you
other featherweights who had a

756
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,440
famous two or three fight
series, Willie Pep with a guy

757
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,640
named Sandy Sadler.
SADDLER.

758
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,160
I've heard that name.
Great, great, great fighter.

759
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,240
Great fighter.
And I'm blanking out on other

760
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:20,200
featherweights, possibly Benny
Leonard back in the 1900s,

761
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,840
nineteen 20s or 30s, he was a
great one.

762
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,800
OK, yes.
OK.

763
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,160
With that said, going back in
time, you just mentioned Rocky

764
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,400
Marciano, who had.
We hadn't talked about him

765
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,440
either.
I've heard different things

766
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:39,800
about his career where he didn't
fight the same kind of

767
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,440
competition that the guys after
him fought.

768
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,920
And he gets credit for being one
of the baddest boxers of all

769
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,320
time, which arguably he was, but
he didn't face the same kind of

770
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:51,920
competition.
Is that true?

771
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,360
I wish I had lived those days, I
was alive, but I didn't live

772
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,200
those days.
In the 50s when he made his

773
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,000
mark, it looks like he had
avoided some of the best

774
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,360
fighters in the world, some of
the black fighters.

775
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,480
That's what I heard.
Yes, yes.

776
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,560
So we don't, we don't know what
he could have been had he faced

777
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,080
those guys.
And he also faced guys kind of

778
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,840
at the end of their career.
So we don't know.

779
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:29,000
Ezra Charles, Joe Walcott, There
was some big competition for

780
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,720
Rocky Marciano that gave him
great fights.

781
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,080
So do we put him in the same
category as you're putting Floyd

782
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,960
Mayweather in, in that he may
have avoided certain times in

783
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,760
his life to make his career
appear better on the yes?

784
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:46,640
I would put him in the same
category, yes.

785
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,760
OK.
Which that puts it into

786
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,720
perspective for me because I'm
all about, you know, I want the

787
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,400
toughest competition in anything
I do in life, right?

788
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,080
You want to know, what do I
major up against, right?

789
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,400
So when you got a guy like Tyson
who fought the best, Muhammad

790
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,400
Ali who fought the best, Joe
Frazier fought the best, those

791
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,600
guys, they're legendary careers
are not marked by these periods

792
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,800
where they avoided certain
situations, right?

793
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,000
Yes, that makes a lot of sense
when you put it into perspective

794
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,520
like that for me.
Yes, Rocky Marciano was

795
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,040
supremely conditioned.
He did what was needed to

796
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:35,080
perform well.
Tough, tough guy, hard puncher.

797
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,280
He had all those things.
But again, the element of

798
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,640
avoiding competition is is in
the picture.

799
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:48,480
Yeah, it's very important.
So what do you think about the

800
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,960
Klitschko brothers?
Oh, I love their efforts.

801
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:58,640
I highly, highly recommend.
And they they may be just

802
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,440
outside the top five
heavyweights of all time, but

803
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,200
the very, very respectable
heavyweights.

804
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,520
Which one?
Which one do you think was

805
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,800
better?
I like the Vitali better than

806
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,320
Vladimir.
OK.

807
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,400
And why is?
That Vladimir was famously

808
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:23,240
worked with by Emmanuel Stewart,
right later in his career, Yeah.

809
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:27,320
And Vitali I think had the more
skill.

810
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:34,280
OK, OK, I could see that.
Both good fighters though.

811
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,720
I I like the Klitschko brothers
like Linux, Linux Lewis too.

812
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:39,760
He was a good he was.
He was always enjoyable to watch

813
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:40,520
as.
Well, Oh yes.

814
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,240
Agreed, you know.
What about how?

815
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:45,240
Many fighters do you train at
one time.

816
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:50,920
Oh, good question.
It varies through the years.

817
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Like when you were in your
prime, you know when you first

818
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,440
started training.
Say you're five years into your

819
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,240
career, you got a good handle on
what you're doing, you're being

820
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:02,160
successful.
How many guys would you take on

821
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,400
at a time?
Whoever was in the gym who

822
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,200
wanted to get serious about it,
I took on.

823
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,480
I couldn't answer the question
numerically because it depends.

824
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,160
And another factor is that for
many years of the boxing club,

825
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,960
I've been doing it for 40 years
in Sarasota.

826
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,840
We recently had our anniversary
celebration in June.

827
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:34,960
Thank you.
And it, it, it just depends.

828
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,760
It depends on on who's in the
gym.

829
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,720
For many years, since I was the
only trainer, I I worked with

830
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:47,080
everyone, amateurs and pros.
Now we have 8 different trainers

831
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,120
in the gym.
Not every day that they come in.

832
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,960
I'm the only one who's there
seven days a week, but we have

833
00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:00,760
trainers who were there 5-6 days
a week, others 3-4 days a week,

834
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,560
and they also are involved in
the training with particular

835
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,640
guys.
Sometimes the same trainer works

836
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:13,120
with multiple guys and you know,
there's an ego situation,

837
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,920
unfortunately, with trainers
that I didn't, did not have to

838
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,200
face when I was the only trainer
in the gym, right, Right.

839
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:25,040
Sometimes trainers feel that
they have the knowledge that a

840
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,000
boxer can take advantage of and
they don't want all the trainers

841
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,880
to work with the guy they're
working with.

842
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,680
So I've never had these problems
until recent years because I was

843
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,920
the only trainer in the gym.
Have you ever trained any women?

844
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:41,240
Oh good.
Question.

845
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:45,800
Well, the woman who won the
world title that I earlier, she

846
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,960
was the most famous one that I
trained.

847
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,920
And yeah, there's always women
that that I've worked with

848
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,400
through the years.
Oh yes.

849
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:54,920
Yes.
Now, is there a different

850
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,320
approach to training them or is
technique technique?

851
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,560
Technique is technique.
No, no different whether you

852
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:07,600
have a penis or a vagina.
I work with the the same

853
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,920
technique with the with both
sexes.

854
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,240
Yes, that's good.
OK, now I got to know this

855
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,760
because I don't know the rules
because I don't watch a lot of

856
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,080
women's boxing sorry women, I
just somehow don't watch a lot

857
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,560
of it's not that I don't even
enjoy it.

858
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,080
I don't happen upon it.
There's.

859
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:22,880
Such entertaining fights though,
Mike.

860
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,520
I and the ones that I do see, I
enjoy.

861
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,760
I just don't see a lot of them.
Is it illegal to punch them in

862
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:34,000
the boob?
Well, they wear a chest

863
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,320
protector around the boobs.
And no, it's not illegal.

864
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:38,760
You get just that you have to
go.

865
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,320
The other girl has to go for it.
Both girls have to go for it in

866
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:49,200
the legal area, anywhere from
the waist to the forehead where

867
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,280
it meets the top of the head,
and halfway.

868
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:57,800
If you could cut a body in half
halfway, you can't hit a boxer

869
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,680
in the back legally.
Halfway around the waist all the

870
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,040
way up is legal.
OK, so.

871
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,800
You can hit him in the side,
right?

872
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,200
In the side, yes.
OK, well, it seems like other

873
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,040
than the head, going for the
boobs would be a good place to

874
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,920
go because, you know, they
always say that's super

875
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,480
sensitive.
That's got to hurt like hell.

876
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,800
Well I've seen women boxes go
for the boobs and actually

877
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,520
they're a buff when as a box.
Really well and they wrap so you

878
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,120
got to wrap those things down
right?

879
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:33,640
Like you're you're.
Yeah, he said.

880
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,280
They got a chest protector.
Pulling them tight, yeah, that's

881
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:37,560
good, yeah.
Yes.

882
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,080
Yeah, that I did not know.
That makes a lot more sense.

883
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,800
Yes.
Yeah, So what was your favorite

884
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:50,440
female boxer of all time?
I would say the one that I'm

885
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,800
associated with in terms of her
promoting with Don King, my my

886
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,120
cruiserweight.
OK, Christy Martin.

887
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,440
Christy Martin.
OK, Yep, Yep, I remember Christy

888
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,960
Martin.
And, and she was promoted by Don

889
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,720
King.
That's where she has the long

890
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:07,840
association with Don King.
Sure, sure.

891
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,320
And Layla Ali.
I was going to ask, yeah, yeah.

892
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,960
I was waiting for Layla Ali to
come up because obviously

893
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,120
Christy.
Martin fought Layla Ali.

894
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,720
Yeah.
And she had to go.

895
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:23,320
She had to put on.
Actually, she wore, the story

896
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,200
goes, that Christie, when she
got on the scales before the

897
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,480
fight, she actually put some
stuff to make her heavier so the

898
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:36,400
fight would would look more
legal than it would had she

899
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,560
actually got her regular weight
against Layla.

900
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,160
Layla was a big girl.
Yeah.

901
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,400
So, so Christie Keister some
some weights.

902
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,000
When she weighed in against the
Layla, yes.

903
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:49,680
That's hilarious.
That's funny.

904
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,920
That's crazy, who won?
I don't remember who won that,

905
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,880
but did did Ollie win that one?
Yeah, Ollie won that.

906
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,840
She really punished Christie
that night.

907
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,280
That's a fight that I wasn't in
love with.

908
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,360
If I if I had been Christie's
trainer, I I don't know if I.

909
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,840
But the money, she got a million
for the fight, Christie, but

910
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,400
that's tough to pass up.
Yeah, I'll get my ass kicked for

911
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,000
1,000,000 bucks.
Yeah, Hell yeah, Hell yeah.

912
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,280
But.
Can I set that up?

913
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,120
My.
Hand, Harold, let me, let me

914
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,040
know where to be.
Yeah, yes.

915
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,520
I'll be the, I'll be the
undercard.

916
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,880
I'll be the undercard, Harold.
So we can, yeah, double dip you.

917
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,640
I have a musician who weighs
probably what you weigh, so

918
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,200
we'll make that happen.
I'm one.

919
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,200
I'm the same weight as Jig, but
Jig looks like he's 200 lbs.

920
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,280
Uh huh.
That still fascinates me.

921
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:36,600
I asked Jagger.
Chris did.

922
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,000
How much do you?
I think Chris did.

923
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,920
How much do you weigh?
And he says 154.

924
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,520
I'm like, I'm 154, but I look
like a skeleton and he looks

925
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:45,640
like a mad shit out.
Yeah.

926
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,720
Right, right, right, right.
I need to hit the weights,

927
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:51,760
Harold.
Yeah.

928
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,920
So we got a few more minutes
here left to Harold, who's the

929
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,440
fastest, the fastest hand speed
boxer you've ever watched?

930
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,320
Great question.
Oh, a lot of contenders there.

931
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,080
Yeah.
I some of the best would be

932
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,680
Hector Camacho.
Yes.

933
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,240
Oh, I forgot about that.
Yeah.

934
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,000
Wow.
I'm demach, young man.

935
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:19,800
I'm demacho man.
Roy Jones, Junior.

936
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,400
Yes.
Oh, I forgot about Roy Jones,

937
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,520
man.
Incredible hands, yeah.

938
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:28,720
A prime Floyd Mayweather?
Yeah, and those three come to

939
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,720
mind.
OK, now what about the, the, the

940
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,720
power punchers?
Who's your top three power

941
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:33,880
punchers?
And it doesn't matter what

942
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,520
division, but just somebody that
when, when you knew they throw

943
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,720
that one punch, that was it if
it connected.

944
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,120
Sonny Liston.
Oh yeah, dude.

945
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,280
Yeah, Sonny.
This is the George.

946
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,520
Mormon, yes.
Joe.

947
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,560
Lewis, Joe Lewis.
OK, so Tyson wasn't in that as a

948
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,240
as a power puncher.
Tyson, of course, yes.

949
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,600
Well, I said top three, though,
so you gave your top three, but

950
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:56,240
that's cool, yeah.
Yes.

951
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,440
Did Foreman and Tyson ever
fight?

952
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,600
I don't remember.
They did not, no.

953
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:01,920
Who do you think would?
Have.

954
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:08,080
Won that play.
A toss up a prime George Foreman

955
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,760
and a prime Tyson.
Tyson would be giving up quite a

956
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:18,360
few inches in high reach, but
Tyson had a way of out jabbing

957
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:23,760
guys who was sometimes 6 foot 6
because as he's famously said

958
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:29,640
and as Customato trained him, a
jab is more a matter of timing

959
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,720
than the length of your arm.
Oh, OK, that's.

960
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:34,480
Good.
So he got in which?

961
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,640
Which is some of my verbiage
when I train a fighter, how

962
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:44,880
quickly can you get from where
you are now till you touch your

963
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,680
the opponent's chin?
How quick can you get in?

964
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:53,240
Yeah, I'm always telling my
boxes to be first.

965
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,240
Yeah.
From my years in boxing, whoever

966
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,880
punches first usually is the
winner of the fight.

967
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,720
Really.
Yes, that totally makes sense.

968
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,120
Yeah.
You see, the more you're, the

969
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:05,800
more the aggressor of all of
yeah.

970
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,200
Yes, the other boxer, if you're
first he's on the he's he has to

971
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,280
react OK instead.
Of defending right.

972
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,240
Yes, yeah.
OK.

973
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,640
So Jig Jig taught, taught us
something when he was on the

974
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,280
show, because I asked him, when
you're when you're standing toe

975
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,560
to toe with your opponent, my
assumption was you're looking at

976
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,120
the head, you're looking at the
waist.

977
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,240
His answer was the feet.
He looks at the feet and how

978
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,440
their feet are.
He determines what kind of boxer

979
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:33,960
they're going to.
Be he said he wants to know if

980
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,000
the guy can move or not.
Yeah, it totally made sense.

981
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,000
I have a different take on that
question.

982
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:45,280
That's why I asked it.
I like my boxers to look at the

983
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,560
upper chest.
OK, instead of the eyes.

984
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,560
I think the eyes can be
deceitful.

985
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,080
Agreed.
You look at the chest, you can

986
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,280
see especially if you scan, like
when you're driving a car, very

987
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,240
similar.
You could make a case.

988
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,240
Boxing and driving are very
similar in many ways.

989
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:10,040
As a driver, you're constantly
scanning to the left, to the

990
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,680
right to know what's on the left
of you, what's on the right of

991
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,280
you, so you can avoid danger as
a boxer.

992
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,800
And you're scanning the chest
and you could see better than

993
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:26,480
looking at the eyes if the boxer
is about to throw a right or a

994
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,320
left.
Now, in Jig's defense, he said

995
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,160
that's what he looks at first,
right?

996
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,640
Right.
Yeah, because he wants to know

997
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,280
if the guy can move or not.
You say the the feet, right?

998
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,120
Yeah, he said.
He looks at the guy when he gets

999
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:41,840
in the ring.
I think Chris asked him

1000
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:43,200
specifically.
That question.

1001
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,160
Like, what are you looking at?
And he said.

1002
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,080
I'm looking at his feet first
because I want to know if he can

1003
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,320
move.
A lot of guys are lead footed,

1004
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:50,840
he said.
They.

1005
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,280
Just you mean what, as he first
gets in the ring before they get

1006
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,320
into action or as he's boxing?
I think as he starts boxing,

1007
01:01:58,320 --> 01:01:59,400
that was the first.
Thing.

1008
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,760
He looks at is to see if the guy
he wants to know if the guy can

1009
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,160
move with him or not.
OK, I wonder how he reconciles

1010
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:08,960
that.
I haven't spoken to Jig He.

1011
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,040
Reconciles it real well because
he knocks everybody right the

1012
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,160
fuck.
Out.

1013
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,680
Excuse my French.
Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't say

1014
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:23,600
the word jig.
No, because I don't want him to

1015
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,920
knock me out.
Well, right on, Harold.

1016
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,800
Harold, what's the what's the
name of the the boxing studio

1017
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,440
you train out of?
Sarasota Boxing Club.

1018
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,360
OK, so if anybody wants to take
up boxing, they need to go see

1019
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,280
Harold at the Sarasota Boxing
Club in Florida.

1020
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,160
Yes they do.
On Google they could find out

1021
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,200
the hours and where we're
located.

1022
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,600
Awesome.
What is it now if somebody just

1023
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,360
wanted to come in and just train
as a boxer, not box?

1024
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,360
Is that something a boxing gym
allows?

1025
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,680
Oh yeah, We have every type of
category, everything you could

1026
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,280
think of, from people who want
to be competitive and a world

1027
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:04,400
champion all the way to people
who are overweight and they want

1028
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,280
to lose weight or they don't
want to be bullied, right?

1029
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:11,800
Or just just get a a workout to
help their physical condition.

1030
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:12,880
OK, that's awesome.
Yeah.

1031
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,440
I've always thought about
training as a boxer just for the

1032
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:17,840
in shape you.
Know when can you come in?

1033
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,520
Say it will take me a while.
Oh.

1034
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,080
He's going to start pedaling his
bicycle right now.

1035
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:25,480
Hey, there's somebody behind
you.

1036
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,120
There is.
It's the Amazon guy.

1037
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,000
I can't ever let that go,
Harold.

1038
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,960
I almost let him die one day.
Oh, I've never heard the end of

1039
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,480
it.
Well, we all need people behind

1040
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,240
us.
We do, Harold, this has been an

1041
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,400
absolute pleasure, man.
You're a genuine human being.

1042
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,520
I can't imagine you having any
type of ego when you're in that,

1043
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:45,800
that that Sarasota boxing gym
training.

1044
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:52,520
You're you're, you're athletes,
you know, just Mike and I love

1045
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,400
boxing.
So this shows afforded us the

1046
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,240
ability to actually talk to a
boxer and now talk to somebody

1047
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:58,760
who's behind the scenes for 40
years.

1048
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,120
So I'm sure I, I can't speak for
Mike, but this has been a great,

1049
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,240
a great opportunity to talk to
you to kind of pick your brain

1050
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,240
and, and just absolutely your
knowledge and experience was

1051
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:08,640
fantastic.
Yeah.

1052
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,200
Thank you so much.
Really.

1053
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,920
Really nice to meet you and we
always appreciate somebody who's

1054
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,240
achieved the pinnacle of their
career, right.

1055
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,560
And making it to the Boxing Hall
of Fame as a trainer and having

1056
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,280
trained somebody who's won a
world title, I would say you've

1057
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,160
achieved the pinnacle, yeah.
Thank you, thank you, thank

1058
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,800
absolutely.
When can I get a copy of this?

1059
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,240
We're going to once we get done,
we'll explain all that to you,

1060
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,520
OK?
I want to shout out and thank

1061
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,440
Ash for for hooking us up with
Harold as well as well as Jake

1062
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,800
because you.
Wouldn't thank you, Ash.

1063
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:41,520
Thank you, Ash.
Thank you, Ash.

1064
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,160
Don't sign off yet when we're
when we went, when we sign off

1065
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,160
the show, stay on your phone
because we won't be live

1066
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,320
anymore.
We want to make sure everything

1067
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,400
gets uploaded properly.
OK.

1068
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,760
We close every show with this.
If you're having a bad day, if

1069
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,640
you're feeling depressed, if
you're if you're feeling

1070
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,720
suicidal, don't do it.
Somebody will miss you.

1071
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,360
Somebody Loves You.
Don't leave a hole in somebody

1072
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,960
else's heart.
Mike and I have both experienced

1073
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:03,080
people who have taken their own
lives.

1074
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:04,200
It's a drag.
It sucks.

1075
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:08,320
It's it's the pain that the the
that you leave behind is

1076
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,960
overwhelming.
So just be mindful of that.

1077
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,720
Reach out to somebody.
Somebody does love you.

1078
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,600
Somebody will miss you.
Wake up tomorrow and it's going

1079
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:15,840
to be a better day, I assure
you.

1080
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,440
For for for Mike Michaels.
I'm Chris Dunham.

1081
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:23,000
He's herald the the rock, the
rock and you know, Hall of Fame

1082
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:27,080
coach, boxing trainer, guru,
specialist Sarasota boxing gym

1083
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:28,480
in Florida.
Google him, check him out.

1084
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,400
Until next time everybody, see
ya.

1085
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,080
Peace.
Peace, all right?

1086
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:38,280
Don't don't sign out.
We're going to fly in there.

1087
01:05:43,250 --> 01:05:52,490
Go insane on your journey.
You will go.

1088
01:05:58,620 --> 01:06:00,580
Be on the trail behind your
eyes.

1089
01:06:00,580 --> 01:06:07,460
Feel yourself and meet yourself.
Take a moment.

1090
01:06:08,260 --> 01:06:09,340
Look.
Until you see it.

1091
01:06:10,620 --> 01:06:13,380
Fight the battle.
That's you fuck wheel.

1092
01:06:14,820 --> 01:06:17,700
Fight the battle, but you fuck
wheel.

1093
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:45,440
Come down here, you haven't
found solids in your sand.

1094
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:51,880
He's fun fighting.
Wait for the dead when he's

1095
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,040
closer out there and put in the
wind.

1096
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,960
You ain't no creature.
We don't play inspire and he's

1097
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,080
church.
You press on.

1098
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:04,880
The almighty dead.
You've got a dream.

1099
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,680
Who in your life?
The people.

1100
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:15,280
Soul in every man.
Take the trip behind your eyes.

1101
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,880
Feel the soul.
Everyone.

1102
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:27,200
You shave now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1103
01:08:27,439 --> 01:09:03,439
yeah.
You gotta, you gotta.

1104
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,640
You gotta, you gotta, you gotta.