#14 - Chris & Mike

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You started the music just fine,
Mr. Michaels, because it's all

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about the rock'n'roll, so the ah
holy holy smokes.

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That's when I still call myself
Christopho.

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Meet one of Arizona's best kept
secrets as they take the local

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rock scene by musical storm.
Their rhythmic blend of

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original, melodic Hard Rock
exudes with energetic

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aggressiveness.
They perform rock the way it was

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meant to be entertaining.
You can catch the band's

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performance and generous
audience interaction giveaways

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at the Mason Jar twice monthly
with future gigs pending.

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Nemesis was formed in September
93 under the name of Desperate

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Angel, with two original members
remaining, Scott Connor, the

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drummer, and Mike Michaels.
Christopher Dunham joined in

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March of 96.
William Richard Carr the third,

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was added in August 96th.
Since November 96th, the band

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has performed with Tony
Mcalpine's Sacred Reich Twice.

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Enough, Enough, and Catfish.
Dude, that's pretty fucking

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cool, man.
I wonder if that number still

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works. 943-1935.
That was mine, wasn't it?

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That was before the 480 and 602
Nonsense, man.

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That was just like you had 7
digits.

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That was it.
And that was not a cell phone,

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ladies and gentlemen.
That was my answering machine.

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So what he read there was what
those?

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Include Yeah, Yeah.
Oh yeah.

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Oh, I was just kind of sorry.
So what he's reading there is

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what the club.
Oh yeah, no, I I I I interrupted

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you.
Yeah.

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No, it's all good.
It's all good.

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Oh.
I was just going.

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On I'll let you read on, but
he's basically reading a bio

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that we.
No, no, no.

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To get better gigs.
So back in those days, you

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couldn't get on the club's
website and submit your music.

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You actually had to go there in
person and drop off ACD or a

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cassette.
We usually had CDs in those

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days, but so you left them ACD
and you left them a bio.

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And the better your bio got, the
better the gigs got.

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So at this point we had open for
what, three national acts or

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four national acts on that
particular bio.

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So we were getting a lot better
gigs, bigger places with bigger

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audiences, and you were reading
our influences.

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Who were our influences at that
moment in time?

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I don't.
Remember some Some of the bands,

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It's OK.
Some of the band's musical

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influences are Candlebox,
Metallica, Led Zeppelin, The

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Doors and Van Halen.
And the The Irony of that, we

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met at Candlebox, which is
obviously I I injected The Doors

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in that, you know and and you.
You Scott.

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Yeah, you and Scott with
Metallica and Zeppelin.

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We all liked Van Halen.
Yeah, Scott and I used Metallica

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before, like we find
incessantly.

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We were a little obsessed back
then.

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I got to find my.
I got to find my bag man.

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I have a bag of everything.
I keep meaning to look for it

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and I just I haven't.
So that's where this.

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Came from.
It's around somewhere though.

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It's got all the all the things.
Same thing.

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I got a ton of Manila folders.
Apparently I was organized back

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then.
And there's all these Flyers, so

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I'm trying to organize them by
date.

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And as they come up, I'll post
them on Facebook and Instagram,

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right?
Seem like people enjoyed that

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so.
We'll keep doing it, yeah.

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Yeah, I enjoyed that.
I enjoyed reading that.

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It was fun.
I did too.

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I found that right before you
logged on, I was just leafing

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through there to see what else
was in that folder and that was

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the last thing in the folder.
Was that bio?

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Right on.
We weren't a secret for too

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long.
We were not a secret for too

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long, and damn, we were on top
of things.

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Yeah, yeah.
Especially in a day and age

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where there was no, there was no
Internet, you know?

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No, it did.
It existed, but it did not exist

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in a form that was usable right
to the consumer.

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No.
Yeah.

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Not like it is.
Yeah.

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Not like it is now.
No.

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No way.
No way.

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It was that fun little dial up.
We are.

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And then you wouldn't get in.
You're like fuck.

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Or somebody would pick up the
phone.

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Oh, the right, right.
Get somebody out of.

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Here.
Yeah, somebody hang.

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The phone up.
Hang the phone up.

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Oh.
Shit, you know, I'm

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disconnected.
And everybody had to share one

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Internet, you know, you couldn't
have multiple people on at the

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same time.
Not till DSL came along.

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Nope.
Nope.

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So I was thinking about that the
other day when I was in college.

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I had a roommate.
And someday I'll tell the

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roommate story because that's a
whole story unto itself.

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I had one roommate that was cool
as hell.

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OK, I was going to say.
He was the one that I went out

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and smoked weed with and the
other roommate, I'm pretty sure

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potentially could have been a
serial killer.

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But he had a computer at that
time and he was connected to the

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Internet and he showed me
Amazon.com in 1992 maybe.

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And all it was was text.
It was hypertext links.

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There were no pictures.
It took fucking forever to load.

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Wow.
But if you knew what you were

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looking for in 1992, you could
buy it from Amazon back then.

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Yeah, so Jeff Bezos was so far
ahead of his time, it's crazy.

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Yeah.
Yeah 'cause I ordered some shit,

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you know?
He showed me enough to be able

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to order.
So I've been ordering stuff from

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Amazon since 1992.
I just remembered that story the

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other day when I was thinking
about this crazy roommate I had.

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Right on, man.
So what do you want to talk

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about today, Mr. Michaels?
We can go in whatever direction

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you want, man.
We can we can talk about my

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name.
It's the guy in shades and and

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saras NI UG ETT.
And that part means you.

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Know what that means?
Right.

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It's it's the guy in shades
backwards.

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See it.
It's the guy in shades

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backwards.
See for my my alter ego and.

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For our listening audience.
In another universe my name is

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maned, maned, Cirque.
He changes his name.

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We're, we're, we're we're
lapsing over today.

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Every time.
Yeah, yeah, every time.

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Yeah.
We're we're crossing we're

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crossing waves today for some
reason.

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Is there?
No, I don't know if there's a

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delay or not.
When you're usually good about.

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I don't know.
There's usually not.

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Usually we don't talk over each
other as of late, but it seems

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like we've done it a few times.
Oh, today, today, today, today,

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today.
Is there an EEEEE Let me know.

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Let me know.
Let me know if there's an echo

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on your.
So I'm frozen.

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I'll pose you a question.
Are you frozen?

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All right, I'll give you an
answer.

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No, I'm not a question, you
know, so not frozen.

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OK, this is not this is not
necessarily the happiest topic

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in the world, but I heard this
the other day from somebody that

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I thought I respected and just
in passing conversation as a

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parent, which I'm not, This
person said if my son or

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daughter came to me and told me
that they were gay, I would

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disown them.
Yep.

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And it stopped me dead in my
tracks.

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I wasn't even a part of the
conversation.

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I just overheard this and I was
like, holy shit, I don't know.

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Yeah, that's harsh.
Because how being a parent, I

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don't care.
I could care lots.

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It's, it's.
That's what I'm saying.

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How could you love somebody less
because of their sexual

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orientation when they came out
of their body?

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Or you were responsible for
making them in any way, shape or

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form.
Agreed.

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I don't.
I don't know.

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Like I always, I always had the
the thought in my head with with

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my daughter, I could care.
And I've said I've said this out

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loud many times.
I could care less if she was a

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high priestess of a Wiccan cult
clan with 27 tattoos and 18 body

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piercings.
As long as she could look me in

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the face and say she's happy
like it's the end of the day.

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Speaking for myself anyway, I
just, I just want my offspring

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to be happy regardless of where
they're at in life and what

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they've gone through.
At the end of the day, if

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they're happy, that's all that
matters.

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And then you know life is what
life is and there's struggles

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with everything.
There's ups and downs and and

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anybody that that says there's
not.

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It's just fucking lying.
Nikki has someone, she knows

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that on Facebook everything was
just roses.

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Like everything.
Every week was love.

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You love this, love that.
This couple, you know, it's like

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you look at them outside looking
and you're thinking holy shit,

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you know these these two got it
figured out, man.

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They're, you know, never bicker,
never argue.

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They're happy.
That's always, you know, smiles

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and you know just the definition
in the Dictionary of of of

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happily married or married.
What is it?

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Married.
Happily married?

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Well, no, happily ever after.
Married.

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Happily ever after.
Fuck, these people are the

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epitome.
Then all of a sudden one week

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goes by and nothing's posted,
and then another week goes by

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and then all of a sudden, you
know, separating because life

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sucks.
He's an asshole.

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She's a bitch.
The whole world came crumbling

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down and finger pointing this,
this, this, and it's like, OK,

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well instead of living in a
fairy tale, like we've said it

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before, but you be real, be
relevant, be raw, you know, I

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don't care.
I don't care less if either one

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of my kids came out, said, hey,
I'm gay, OK, that's cool, be

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safe.
Don't do anything stupid.

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You know, I don't, it doesn't
matter.

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It's not a reflection on who I
am.

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It's not a reflection on the
parents at all.

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And that may be where that
person was going with that

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because yeah I know and it
doesn't to me but we're but but

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that's a minor that's that's a
very small scale I think on a on

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a global world population.
I don't think that's too much.

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To affect somebody to an open
mindedness, I don't either.

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I don't either But.
You're you're literally their

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parent.
It's still one of those things,

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man.
We're whittling it all the way

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down to who are their parent.
This is not just any random

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person.
You're their fucking parent.

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I would disown them on fucking.
It's 2024, man.

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I don't get that.
I didn't understand it in 19. 84

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That's crazy.
As an 11.

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Year old kid.
And I know people now, right?

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No, no.
And I know people now that I

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knew in high school, right?
Well that's the thing.

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Nothing makes them different
because I like, like I I I like

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legitimately know people now
still that I knew in high school

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and in high school you knew they
were gay.

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But it it wasn't, it wasn't, it
wasn't it was obvious but it

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wasn't discussed because of the
hatred and the and the and the

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bigotry and you know like we
have a kid that got his ass ass

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beat.
That's the wrong way to say it.

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We had a kid that was jumped at
a party in in the Valley close

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to where I live, and he was
beaten to death by four or five

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kids.
You're never going to know why

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they beat him to death, and I'm
not making any, any windows

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about why they beat him to death
is a group called the Gilbert

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Goons that are finally being
tracked down and arrested and

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charged and shit.
But he was a teenager and these

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were all teenagers.
A couple of them were over 18,

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but on a whole, it was a group
of teenagers, you know, pouncing

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on a kid that was in a weak,
vulnerable state, whatever that

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was, and beat him to death.
And you'll never know why

228
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,720
because nobody was there except
the kid that was was beaten to

229
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:51,800
death.
And the kids that were doing the

230
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,280
beating, well, the beating that
was administered, They're not

231
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,200
going to stand up and say This
is why we beat him.

232
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,080
You know, they're not going to
admit to anything because now

233
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,680
they're all lawyered up.
But that shit's not going away

234
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:04,400
and it's and it's just going to
get more and more.

235
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,520
It's going to get more and more
prevalent as as we continue our

236
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,760
lives because and this isn't a
slam on parenting, but like when

237
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,960
we were growing up, you could
have a one parent stay home by

238
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,360
one parent worked.
You can't have that anymore.

239
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,040
You know it.
It's it's financially it's

240
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,520
impossible.
So, you know, when we were

241
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:29,040
latchkey kids, you know,
nowadays you'd get a the parent

242
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,600
would be arrested for child
neglect and all that kind of

243
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,600
shit because they're gone from
6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and the kids

244
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,600
fending for themselves.
You know, going to school,

245
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,880
coming home from school, making
them dinner and shit.

246
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,600
Yeah, you can't do that anymore.
And I just.

247
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,160
I just don't see.
No, but they but they do.

248
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,760
They just don't advertise it.
But I just like today.

249
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,680
I was right.
I was coming back from dropping

250
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,320
little man off this morning and
it just one of those weird

251
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,400
little moments in your head
where there's a there's a little

252
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,080
girl walking she's got a little
backpack.

253
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,040
She can't be you know 6-7 years
old.

254
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,280
You know, it's hard to tell how
how kids are, you know, any more

255
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,720
days, but she's got a little
water bottle on her hand

256
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,920
backpack and she's turning the
corner and I'm like, I look

257
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,960
back, I'm like, what the fuck
the parents like Grant.

258
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,600
She's in a neighborhood.
She's she's, you know, quarter

259
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,960
mile from the school.
But.

260
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,640
But she's walking that sidewalk
along.

261
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:24,280
There's no right.
There's no fucking way I would.

262
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,000
That's what I'm saying.
There's no way I'd let Little

263
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,800
man walk.
I mean, I've right.

264
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,200
I mean if if I could have eyes
on him from point A to point B

265
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,160
and he wanted to be independent,
you know, I want to walk the

266
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,280
school, OK.
I'm.

267
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,800
I'm watching him the whole time
you know when he gets to the

268
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,800
100%.
But this little girl, man, there

269
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,680
was, there was, there's nobody
that came around that corner

270
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,160
just her.
And there was a school and I was

271
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,200
just like and it just it struck
me as like wow, that's messed

272
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,840
up.
Like, if anybody, anybody.

273
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,040
You know, we had when we were
growing up.

274
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,000
It was the van the Chester the
molester thing, remember And and

275
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,160
you never go to the panel.
They ever get offered candy and

276
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,720
shit like, right.
Exactly.

277
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,480
You know, and you're a Kidman
you you that was drilled into

278
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,600
your head like don't talk to
strangers.

279
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,720
You know none of that shit.
It just it would take nothing

280
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,400
for somebody to slowly roll up
and just grab that kit and be

281
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,440
done and and that's the scary
thing.

282
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,280
That shit happens all the time.
More than people realize.

283
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,440
Because they don't.
They don't.

284
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,480
They don't share it with the
world.

285
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,840
Like they don't share these
these kids getting beat up and

286
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,600
and shit with the world until
something tragically has to

287
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,640
happen.
Something something monumental

288
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,800
has to happen.
This this kid, Preston got it,

289
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,560
got this just beat to death and
all of a sudden it's news.

290
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,520
But it's been going on forever
because this group, the Gilbert

291
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,200
goons, they've been around
forever.

292
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,320
It's not like they just started
when they jumped this kid and.

293
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,080
How long ago did this happen?
People just need to, yeah,

294
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,720
within the last six months.
Oh, OK, this is super recent.

295
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,720
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know,
maybe even sooner, maybe even

296
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:07,000
shorter time frame.
I don't watch the news, so I

297
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,920
just pick it up on Instagram
with Arizona.

298
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,800
Family has a little thread they
drop little snippets and but I

299
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:19,000
literally have not sat down and
watched some newscast since 2007

300
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:20,599
start to finish.
Every now and then I'll watch

301
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,040
the weather.
Correct.

302
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,960
But I just don't, you know?
But that goes back to what we

303
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,760
were kind of talking about, the
way the world's evolved.

304
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:30,960
It's not evolving for the
better.

305
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,920
Because even even now, kids that
come out to your parents, like

306
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,160
they said, the parents disown
them.

307
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,320
Then what?
Then they're homeless and

308
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,280
they're on the streets.
And then they're doing what

309
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,040
they're they're turning into
selling their bodies to be able

310
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,720
to put a roof over their head.
And it's just, it's a slippery

311
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,880
slope, man.
Well, love is love.

312
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,880
It's not.
If it comes out of your body

313
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,840
with you and it's something.
Yeah, go ahead.

314
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,160
I'll agree with you, and I'll
disagree with you.

315
00:17:54,280 --> 00:18:01,080
So I agree with you that the
illusion that at least for

316
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,920
whatever demented reason, the
government and the media would

317
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,880
like you to believe that things
are getting worse.

318
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:13,200
But at least in a little tiny
way, if I can change, there's

319
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,160
hope for everybody.
Because I ended up being the

320
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,240
most negative son of a bitch
there ever was before I flipped

321
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:28,040
a switch and did a 180 and
decided that, you know, that was

322
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,720
going to kill me thinking that
way.

323
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:36,080
You know, I just, I have hope
that anybody that goes through

324
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,520
the darkest period of their life
like we did, where you know,

325
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:45,200
death was an option on many
occasions, more than more than

326
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,760
we could count and more than
most people have ever thought

327
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,200
about.
If you can come out of that and

328
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,840
end up being the people that we
are sitting here trying to plead

329
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,480
with the rest of the world, that
love is the answer.

330
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,600
It's the hardest, easiest thing
that you'll ever do, but by far

331
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:07,000
the most rewarding.
Because as soon as I changed my

332
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,040
mindset and started being kind
to people I didn't even know,

333
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,800
that's what changed my life.
It wasn't being kind to the

334
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,000
people that already knew me.
That was easy.

335
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,400
But to start being kind to the
lady at the grocery store,

336
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,680
that's only got two things that
I was a Dick before.

337
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,560
And I'm like, I'm here first,
you know, And I'm like, you go

338
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,640
right ahead.
You know, she's 80 years old.

339
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,240
Thank.
You very much.

340
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,600
What a kind young man that
changed her day.

341
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,640
You know, Those are the kind of
moments that I'm looking for

342
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,440
every day.
I love those moments.

343
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,360
Agreed.
Those are good moments.

344
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,080
Being so, making somebody smile
for lack of Yeah, just.

345
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:55,640
For no reason at all, right?
Just to leave them better than

346
00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,800
you found them, you know.
Yeah, and it could change.

347
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,880
They could change the path of
their day just by opening

348
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,480
somebody's door for them and
holding it open, you know?

349
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,920
I encounter way more good people
than I do bad people, so is it

350
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,120
really getting worse?
Or is it the illusion that we're

351
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:21,320
being spoon fed because they
only tell you the bad?

352
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,440
Thing Well and again, I don't
watch the news.

353
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,520
Yeah, right, right.
So even not watching.

354
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,040
I watch this I You'll be proud
of me.

355
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,840
I watch this snippet from right.
You'll but you'll be proud of

356
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,400
me.
I watch the snippet of Joe Rogan

357
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:40,280
and and he was talking about how
the media shares the same thing

358
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,680
across the country and they had
little snippets of different

359
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,160
newscasts and all the reporters
were essentially saying the same

360
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,760
thing across the board.
That's where I heard it at the

361
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,600
first time.
There was no real variance aside

362
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,680
from.
Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

363
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,960
So there.
Wasn't really sent me to.

364
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,520
YouTube variance except the
delivery.

365
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,320
Yeah, right.
And it gets up to like 600 of

366
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,760
them, right?
Independent local newscasts.

367
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,440
It starts with one, then they
double it.

368
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,600
Yeah, it gets up to like 600.
And they're all saying the same

369
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,000
thing.
Yeah, and it's sad.

370
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
The media controls the world
now, which it shouldn't.

371
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,080
But it's it's it's it's true,
unfortunately.

372
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,760
And it's entertainment they
don't have to tell.

373
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:33,400
The passion on the Yeah, no.
So that makes it propaganda.

374
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,600
Which makes it sound like what?
Yep.

375
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,440
You live in the illusion of a
democracy.

376
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,640
That's why I make fun of the
whole presidential process.

377
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,480
It doesn't fucking matter if we
can't get to the point in a

378
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,760
conversation no where we can
agree that it doesn't matter

379
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,080
who's sitting in that chair.
We're never going to agree on

380
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,680
anything because it really
doesn't fucking matter.

381
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:04,000
This country was bought and paid
for probably 30 years ago.

382
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,680
As soon as lobbyists came into
the picture, it was all over.

383
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,760
Because those senators and those
congressmen are going to do

384
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,200
whatever they need to to keep
that donation coming back in, to

385
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,160
keep the re election campaign,
to stay in that office, to not

386
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,440
have to do anything other than
suck on the American taxpayer,

387
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,760
right?
Yep, the system just needs to

388
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,520
change.
It does.

389
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,840
It does so.
We need to get some positive

390
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,360
people in there and I am proud
of you for listening to a

391
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,080
snippet of the Joe Rogan
Podcast.

392
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,200
Yeah, yeah.
It's fun, man.

393
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,160
He makes me laugh.
I'm hearing something.

394
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,600
That's a bird.
I thought I heard little man.

395
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,080
That's a bird.
Yeah, he is funny.

396
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,160
I I remember Joe Rogan from News
Radio, man, you know where he

397
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,280
was the, the maintenance guy.
When he had hair.

398
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,440
You know, stupid little bits.
Uh, huh, Stupid little.

399
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:16,160
You know, just walk on the scene
and some, you know, yeah, he was

400
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,480
funny.
And then the fact that he's

401
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,520
evolved from that to the UFC
dude and now he's, you know,

402
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,840
it's amazing what people can do
when they have a door open for

403
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,040
them and they just go charging
forward, you know?

404
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,800
And that whole thing for him was
just a complete accident.

405
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,600
It was something he wanted to
do.

406
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,240
He thought he could do it.
It started off just as a kind of

407
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,360
a joke.
And the next thing you know,

408
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,120
there were 1000 people listening
and there was 10,000.

409
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,200
Now he's got like, I don't know,
12.5 million downloads a month

410
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,640
or something.
He out.

411
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,360
He outperforms every major news
organization like 12:50, maybe

412
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,960
100 to 1.
That's insane and that I think

413
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:04,680
that's that could be said with
yeah I think more and more

414
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,800
people are are getting off of
mainstream media to try and find

415
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,920
what's going on in the world
today.

416
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,760
It's like, I'd love to dive into
the dark web, but I'm afraid to

417
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,800
go into the dark web.
Because once you go in the dark

418
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,280
web, I, you know, I have this, I
have this this thing in my head

419
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,880
that once you open that box and
like you're exposed and they can

420
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,720
everybody can track you and get
your information and all of a

421
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,440
sudden you're, you know, 27
different credit cards and fraud

422
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,280
all over the world.
But I think the Dark would be

423
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,480
really cool to kind of go into
for a few hours just to kind of

424
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,840
Snoop around it as a as a voyeur
and just see all the like the

425
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:49,320
the rawness of life that you
know could be bustling in there,

426
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,880
you know?
I don't know if that's the right

427
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,000
phrase.
So the.

428
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,800
Right term, you know.
I would like to see somebody

429
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:04,560
that knows the dark web in
action, as well as you and I can

430
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:11,280
perform in a Rock Band like a
pro level.

431
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,000
Yeah, that would.
Be cool.

432
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,040
You know, I want to see it
really work, is what I'm saying.

433
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,920
Like a true master, one of them
fuckers that's sitting there

434
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,840
typing like 200 words a minute.
You know, just writing lines of

435
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,520
code like it's there's no
tomorrow.

436
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,920
Yeah, they're out there too, you
know.

437
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560
But there's a lot of stuff on
there you don't want to see

438
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,720
because that's where people are
bought and sold, you know?

439
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,480
Agreed.
Yeah.

440
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,440
Oh yeah, yeah.
There's that's the darkness of

441
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,920
it.
I'm not talking about that dark

442
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,800
side of it.
Just, you know, the unfiltered

443
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,680
reality of the world.
You know, kind of like you know

444
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,760
dystopian society living
underneath the the streets, you

445
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,880
know, there's a whole
underground world, you know, but

446
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,560
it's online.
So what do you want to talk

447
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,760
about today?
It's dark for a minute there, I.

448
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,040
Think we're doing it?
OK, we're talking.

449
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,280
Talking about darkness, that's
what we do sometimes it,

450
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,960
sometimes it takes a turn it.
Is that's all good.

451
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,720
It'd be interesting to see what
people, if if people chime into

452
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,480
this and how they would react if
they're their child came out of

453
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,920
the closet and said, hey, I'm,
I'm not this, I'm that, you

454
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:36,240
know, I don't have a problem
with the, you know, the gay,

455
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,960
lesbian thing at all.
I think, I think the trans part

456
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,440
of it could be a little bit
weird because you have to look

457
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,920
back to me.
Something somewhere along the

458
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,560
lines of their their upbringing
had to have messed with them, to

459
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,720
not identify with who they are
and how they, how they were born

460
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,200
and they, you know.
It's that part I don't

461
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,880
completely understand.
I'm not bashing it.

462
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,480
I just don't understand that
part of it.

463
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,600
So I would say, you know, on
that, I would say on that level

464
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,880
I would just make, yeah, I would
just make sure that that person

465
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,160
is OK.
You know, if they're my kid,

466
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,560
make sure that they're mentally
OK Yeah.

467
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,000
If they if they seem like the
exact same person, only they're

468
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,480
going to be that way, I'm
definitely not going to

469
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,760
understand it because, you know,
I would have been that way if I

470
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,720
understood it is the way I
always look at it.

471
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,840
I don't get it, but I can accept
it on the same level.

472
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,680
I can accept a lot of things
that don't affect my life.

473
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,440
You just got to say to yourself,
does this affect me?

474
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,320
And as long as that person is
mentally OK, in that case, I

475
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,840
would make sure they were
mentally OK.

476
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,040
I guess that's.
Where I'm going, that's a good

477
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,320
yeah.
Yeah, because you're right.

478
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,400
That's a good way to look at
that.

479
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,480
Weird, you know?
Yeah.

480
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,600
And it's not and I'm again, not
bashing it at all it it's just,

481
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,480
you know gay straight by those
are those 3 little things.

482
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,080
And and I just you know when
somebody goes to the to the to

483
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,680
the point to where they're
they're having surgery to to

484
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,600
remove an appendage or to create
genitalia.

485
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,360
I think somewhere along the
lines they were just

486
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,760
monumentally screwed within the
head somewhere.

487
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,280
I mean I could be completely
wrong right or abused but I just

488
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,680
you know you are who you right.
That's what I mean somewhere

489
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,400
along the lines they had to have
been fucked with at some level

490
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,840
to to have just a dramatic shift
in their thinking and and

491
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,680
because it comes down to
yourself esteem all of that

492
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,720
comes down to self esteem and
your insecurities.

493
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,280
Everybody's insecure at some
level.

494
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,800
You know everybody has has self
esteem issues at some level.

495
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,040
Nobody's, I don't care who you
are, you know, nobody's,

496
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,160
nobody's walking tall and you
know the outside looking in like

497
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,480
that Facebook thing I I shared
earlier, you know, everybody's

498
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,360
fragile.
Everybody's been shaken to their

499
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,080
core, you know what I mean?
Like I could think of two or

500
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,760
three things now that would just
completely fuck my world up to

501
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,120
the fact that that wouldn't even
that wouldn't even be a

502
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,520
hesitation of of me going back
down the the drinking route just

503
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,440
to bury one of those two things
happened.

504
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,760
And you know I'm not going to
say him because it's just it's

505
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,560
that it's that left side of a
holy shit moment what would

506
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,240
cause what would trigger me to
go back down that path.

507
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,880
And there's really two things
that that could do that.

508
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,560
No.
And it.

509
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,440
And it.
And so.

510
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,080
But that's my point, is that
everybody has everybody's

511
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,480
fragile, man.
Everybody.

512
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,560
There's something like, you can
ask somebody, like, what's your

513
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,960
greatest fear?
Oh, public speaking is the #1

514
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,080
greatest fear ever.
You know, It's like people have

515
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,800
come to terms with dying because
why not?

516
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,000
You live, you die.
There's no way around that shit.

517
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,240
Although I have been following
some vampire stuff on Facebook

518
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,960
that's interesting, you know,
don't know if it's real or not

519
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,480
because I haven't met one of
them yet.

520
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,920
But if I do, I mean, you know,
you know, bite me and see if I

521
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,400
come back.
Yeah, yeah, you know, teach his

522
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,560
own man, you know?
But like, it's legit.

523
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,760
I stumbled on it.
It was one of those weird

524
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,200
things, man, that you know how
your phones listen to you, like

525
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,840
when you're sitting around.
Like, I What the fuck was it?

526
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Oh, there was something that I
said that had absolutely no

527
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,200
relevance on our lives.
But it was something I looked

528
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,080
for and I and I mentioned it to
Nikki.

529
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,280
And then all of a sudden her
phone, her Facebook feed showing

530
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,280
that shit, I'm like, well,
that's because we, I said

531
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,920
something about it, which is
just weird.

532
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,800
But I said something about there
was something I think Interview

533
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,320
with Vampire got dropped on
Netflix or something and I said

534
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,520
that out loud.
Within a day, man, I started to

535
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,680
have vampire shit on my feet.
I'm like, well this is a trip

536
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,360
and I'm, I've always been kind
of, you know, I like the dark

537
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,120
side of shit.
You know, I'm I like, I'm the

538
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,400
guy that I'm.
We have that in common, you know

539
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,800
that.
You know they'll take me

540
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,600
literally, right?
Right.

541
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,880
This whole the serial killers
and the macabre and the

542
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,080
darkness, that stuff's just
fascinating for me, for more.

543
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,280
For more than anything, you take
a normal human like myself or

544
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,360
yourself and then and somewhere
along the lines there's there's

545
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,200
just something that just treat
just just pushes the button.

546
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,800
Like the movie Falling Down with
with Michael Douglas.

547
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,920
Great.
Fucking love that movie, dude

548
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,120
falling down.
I fucking love that.

549
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Movie, right?
Right.

550
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,920
If you don't love that movie,
you are.

551
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,800
Possibly defence.
At all.

552
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,920
No, at right.
But that's brilliant.

553
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,680
That's like normal everyday,
normal everyday guy and he just

554
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,480
and then boom, you know
something just triggered him and

555
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,720
that was it, man.
He went, he went this way and

556
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,320
and there was no looking back.
So that's what that's what

557
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,960
fascinates me.
I almost had fantasized it was

558
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,800
the wrong word fascinates me
about about serial killers and

559
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,840
mass murderers.
It's it's it's not so much what

560
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,720
they did the act of it.
It's like what what got them

561
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,800
there?
What, what was the thing that

562
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,640
made them turn you, you know,
because a lot of it, you know,

563
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,120
20 years ago was attributed like
everybody was like if you know,

564
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,160
when we were growing up those
the pedophiles themselves were

565
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,600
abused as children.
So, you know, once an abuser

566
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,240
becomes the once an the abusee
becomes the abuser type thing,

567
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,000
that's that vicious cycle.
Well, obviously that cycle has

568
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,440
changed in life.
You know, I was fucked with for

569
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,680
a couple years and and I didn't
grow up to be that dark,

570
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,440
twisted, you know, pedophile,
child molester, and you know,

571
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,400
all that kind of stuff because.
But you could have.

572
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,000
I had outlets, but there's
people that don't have outlets.

573
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,520
Absolutely.
You know it.

574
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,720
It there's that's the thing.
It's like I had, I had the

575
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,040
outlet of the of the writing and
stuff that I think kind of put

576
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,840
all that in check.
I think that's probably one of

577
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,400
the one of the reasons why I
drank is without knowing it

578
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,160
because I didn't realize why I
was drinking when I was

579
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,920
drinking.
I'll turn my fan off.

580
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,600
But.
But, you know, looking back, I

581
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,400
mean, I'm 19 years sober in 10
days.

582
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,160
So it's one of those things that
there was some there was

583
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,720
something that caused me to get
out of control with drinking.

584
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,480
There's something that causes
anybody to get out of trouble

585
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,720
with with with substance abuse.
There's it's not you wake up one

586
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,600
day, oh, you know what?
Today's a good day.

587
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,800
I'm going to go get some ecstasy
and see how my day works with

588
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,480
that.
Actually, that's.

589
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,280
You know, the general public
doesn't do that.

590
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,160
Hold on.
So that's a bad example.

591
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,560
That is the one drug that you
buy to see how your day goes

592
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,640
with that.
Just okay.

593
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,920
Nobody wakes up and buys some
heroin to see how their day's

594
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,160
gonna go with that.
There you go.

595
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's what.

596
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,280
I'm ecstasy is made just for
that.

597
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:49,600
Nobody just decides oh OK see
that shows you my ignorance of

598
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,440
of you know my my level of
understanding of drugs is is

599
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,400
marijuana and then what what we
had a family member go through

600
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,000
that I watched first hand Other
than that you know you know I've

601
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,160
watched I had a guitar play and
not you.

602
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,320
One night after after practice,
we went and picked up or before

603
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:09,840
practice.
I think they'll go picked up

604
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,000
this guy to come join us.
And you know, I was sitting out

605
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,239
front waiting, waiting, waiting.
I finally went in.

606
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,480
I'm like, what are you fucking
guys doing?

607
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,400
And they're sitting there, you
know, smoking crystal meth,

608
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,480
which I didn't know that's what
they were smoking at the time.

609
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:29,920
But I was just like really like
really like I just, you know,

610
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,360
and yeah, I know you went
through the battle of meth and

611
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,920
stuff.
We didn't, we weren't connected

612
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,560
during that struggle.
But it's just.

613
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,600
No, that was after the.
You and I both understand

614
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,000
addiction, right?
You and I both understand

615
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,679
addiction.
We both understand how I can get

616
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:48,480
out of control.
But seeing that person do that,

617
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,120
I mean you know he was you know
if I'm standing you know we're

618
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,000
kind of there and it's just and
it's just and it's just like

619
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,920
really and and it's just
slippery slope ever since for

620
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,520
that individual from what I've
heard which is.

621
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,840
Sad.
I'm actually glad you didn't

622
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,240
have to see that from me.
Musicians are challenging.

623
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,200
Yeah, I am too.
I am too.

624
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,400
'cause it.
I don't think it would have

625
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,080
changed our relationship.
I would have, I probably would

626
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,360
have been like, what the fuck?
And kind of tried to put you in

627
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,760
your place, like what are you
fucking doing?

628
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,720
Because you know what people
don't understand unless you've

629
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:29,880
been in a band, the time you
spend together, it's it's it's

630
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,400
on a very intimate level because
you're you're very vulnerable

631
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,000
being in a band.
Because as a as a songwriter I'm

632
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,160
bringing out the darkness and
I'm laying that down in front of

633
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:45,680
three musicians saying, hey,
this is what I wrote, what do

634
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,600
you think?
And the vulnerability that comes

635
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,640
with that because you don't know
how your bandmates are going to

636
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,680
accept something you write,
especially when it's something

637
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,320
that's deep rooted and you know,
dark and super interpersonal.

638
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,960
So there's got to be that that
massive level of trust.

639
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,120
That's why a lot of people refer
to bands as as a marriage,

640
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,920
right?
Because you have that massive

641
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,960
trust and you have that massive
vulnerability and it all has to

642
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,880
gel in order for it to work.
So unless you've been an

643
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,800
abandoned experience that like
we were lucky enough to have,

644
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,760
you don't understand the concept
of, you know, if I saw you smoke

645
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,640
a crystal meth, like straight
up, I I'd love you still as a

646
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,640
brother, but I'd be like, what
the fuck you doing, man?

647
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,160
Like what the fuck?
How is this appealing?

648
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,680
I would have done.
I wouldn't.

649
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,240
I wouldn't understand that part
of it.

650
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,920
You would have done the same
thing my own brother did, and he

651
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,800
called me up and confronted me.
So, you know, if you had known,

652
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,160
you'd have done the same thing
he did.

653
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,320
He knew, and he couldn't just
sit there and not do anything.

654
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,840
And God bless him or whatever
you want to say, he that night

655
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,680
he just decided that he got
enough courage in him and said,

656
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,560
hey, I know what you're doing.
Whether you want to admit it to

657
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,840
me or not, I just want you to
know that I know that you're not

658
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,000
fooling anybody.
So it meant a lot to me.

659
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,880
I didn't bring myself up at that
moment in time.

660
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,600
But thinking back on it, you
know, those are the kind of

661
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,600
things that at least for a
minute, I knew somebody cared,

662
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,480
you know, and you don't know how
much that means to a person that

663
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,320
is that far down that really has
no one.

664
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:30,680
I had no one at that point that
really I trusted to which is.

665
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:36,200
Which is which is bad.
Yeah, because there were people

666
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,640
that would have helped me.
You, my mom, my dad, my sister,

667
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,560
my brother.
I mean, it's not like I didn't

668
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,560
have options, you know?
I had options.

669
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,840
My aunt, my uncle, like there
were all my cousins.

670
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,480
There were all kinds of options.
But to me, I was so disappointed

671
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,240
in myself that to ask for help
for someone from someone that I

672
00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:01,640
respected on a level that you
just described wasn't an option

673
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,560
because I would have felt like
such a fucking failure.

674
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,960
Cried man.
And that's that's that's the

675
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,440
hammer, right.
Oh that's yeah, exactly.

676
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,840
It's it's it's it's the shame.
It's the absolute shame when you

677
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,080
when you when you wake up and
you realize fuck, like, like

678
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,200
when I woke up the day after the
last time I was, I was just

679
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,880
completely hammered it.
It was that I woke up and I and

680
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,920
I just knew I knew in my bones
like, what the fuck did I do

681
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,280
yesterday?
Because I didn't remember all of

682
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,680
it, but I remembered enough of
it to know something has to

683
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,200
change.
And that was, I mean that was

684
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,040
just the the simplest form in my
head.

685
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,840
Just something has to change.
And it wasn't it wasn't a long

686
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,040
drawn out.
I mean it was within 48 hours,

687
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,760
man.
You know, I stopped.

688
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,960
Everything was poured out
flushed down this drop.

689
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,960
You know poured down the sink,
saved one shot, one beer.

690
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,360
I can still see it standing in
the kitchen on the House on

691
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,360
extension.
I I hit that shot while looking

692
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,040
out the kitchen window, see in
the backyard.

693
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,240
Let that kind of just absorb and
then and then nurse that beer

694
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,000
knowing it was the last beer I
was ever going to have again in

695
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,960
my life that had alcohol in it.
Mind you because now the grace

696
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,480
of all things.
Microbrewery Heineken and you

697
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,480
know 00.
But that's the thing.

698
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,360
It's the shame.
It's it's it's and you can

699
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,280
relate, 'cause you were you were
there.

700
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,920
It's it's it's the the amount of
vulnerability that it takes to

701
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:47,040
come clean for an addict,
knowing that everybody you talk

702
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,880
to has every right in the world
to fucking beat you down for

703
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,760
what you put them through.
And they for the most part they

704
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,880
don't.
If if they truly love who you

705
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,360
are and care who you are about
you, they just embrace that and

706
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,160
and you know.
I couldn't agree with that

707
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,880
statement more.
Right, right.

708
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,560
They just, they're like in their
head.

709
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,520
Like, I'm sure Nikki was like
fucking.

710
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,360
It's about time.
But it still took months, if not

711
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,800
a year to actually come to terms
that I could be rationalized

712
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,960
with.
I could be talked to, I could, I

713
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,640
could have a conversation.
And I wasn't just shaking my

714
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,640
head, you know, like I was
involved in it.

715
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,680
There was a dialogue, and I'm
sure you were the same way.

716
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,320
It's like you just and then you
start waking up and you're like

717
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,840
the first day you wake up, it's
like, fuck, this sucks, 'cause

718
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,080
you still ache and you still,
you still have that that desire.

719
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,200
And then the next day and that's
that's the whole thing.

720
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:45,360
One day at a time.
When?

721
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,680
The day, when the day, when the
week, when the week, when the

722
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,920
month, you know.
So get get 5 out of seven days

723
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,000
where you can function without
without really harboring on the

724
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,200
chaos that's going on in your
brain, 'cause it's fucking

725
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,880
chaotic, right?
When you stop.

726
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,400
It's a battle, man.
You're you got the physical

727
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,960
aspect, you got the
psychological aspect, you got

728
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,240
the little triggers.
Like, I can't watch baseball on

729
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,280
TV anymore as it triggers me to
want to drink.

730
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,560
I used to just sit there and
pound beer watching the

731
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,360
Diamondbacks.
I can't do it anymore, you know.

732
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,560
So it had to be the same with
you.

733
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,600
Once you stop, with just the the
triggers and the every day, it

734
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,680
was a different day.
And every day it was a struggle

735
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,080
for one reason or another.
Was never.

736
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,520
That's why I moved, right?
That's why I moved back here.

737
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,520
Ah.
In my mind that.

738
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,120
Makes sense?
So we, we discussed I think the

739
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,200
last podcast or the one before
that that you and I were going

740
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,800
to continue on, put another
version of Nemesis together.

741
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:53,080
Yeah, we did that.
We, we started succeeded to some

742
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:59,080
level and then, you know, for
one reason or another, I

743
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,800
probably wasn't ready.
Who knows?

744
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,880
A lot of people weren't ready.
Just it was too soon into my

745
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,880
recovery.
I haven't really processed that

746
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,440
moment in time, so I'm not quite
sure what I was thinking.

747
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,400
I probably wasn't thinking very
clearly to your point.

748
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:19,720
Shortly after that I started
talking to a good friend of mine

749
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:25,600
that I went to school with back
here and they found me on

750
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,680
Facebook.
We're going to leave them as a

751
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,400
day.
There's no reason to break in

752
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,640
anonymity because I want I want
to be able to keep telling these

753
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,040
stories on some level but and
it's nobody else's business.

754
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,920
So they found me on Facebook and
the people that know the story

755
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,280
know the story.
But anyway, I had discussed how

756
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,720
my relationship with my parents
was not good.

757
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,320
And right there, that stopped
them in their tracks.

758
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,360
And they were heartbroken
because they were also very

759
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,480
close with my mom, for sure,
because they work together.

760
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:07,000
So OK, they OK.
Hi mom.

761
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:13,200
They pleaded with me to come
home just for just to, you know,

762
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,280
visit.
So I agreed.

763
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,120
Yeah, and I was supposed to come
back here for a two week

764
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:27,920
vacation in 2009.
And when I got here, I was all

765
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,200
intent on coming back to Arizona
at the end of that two weeks.

766
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:38,400
And by about day #10, like you
said, that voice in my

767
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,320
subconscious started getting
real loud.

768
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,200
And basically I knew that if I
didn't slow myself down to a

769
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:54,000
crawl that I was either going to
lose my mind or go back to that

770
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,000
kind of lifestyle.
So this fit.

771
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,680
So when you left, so when you
left Arizona, how, how, how?

772
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,320
How long?
Were you clean when you left

773
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,600
Arizona, or did you or did you
wait?

774
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,360
How long were you clean when you
left Arizona?

775
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:21,440
About 14 months, OK, 16 maybe.
That's about a year and a half

776
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,520
maybe.
Foundation of some.

777
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,520
Yes, I did.
That you were clean.

778
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,760
Yeah.
OK, that's good.

779
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,520
And that's.
What was the What was the what

780
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,480
was the determining factor?
Yeah, yeah, I figured 100%, no

781
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,480
pot, nothing.
So what was, what was the

782
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,120
deciding factor?
Being being sober that amount of

783
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,160
time and then going home for
what was going to be two weeks.

784
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,120
And then like you said day 10,
like just something went off on

785
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,680
your brain and said, whoa, like,
what were you afraid of in

786
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,440
returning?
Was it your you didn't 'cause

787
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,720
obviously when you got clean you
had to change your surroundings,

788
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:57,800
right?
Aside from where you were

789
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,080
living, you were, you changed.
You hung out with things like

790
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,880
that, correct?
Correct.

791
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,960
That's when I moved back in with
Kevin.

792
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,600
Yeah.
And he basically.

793
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,800
Which Kevin grounded you?
He did and basically he saved my

794
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:21,320
life because he gave me a he
gave me a place where there was

795
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:30,440
no judgement, there was just get
well attitude.

796
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,320
You know, I will give him credit
that he cared about me on a

797
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,360
human level, and that's why I'm
sitting here talking to you.

798
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:45,240
So at the point that I came
here, I needed to evolve.

799
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,560
What I think what he didn't
understand and why he got mad is

800
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,840
that it was a whole, it was a
very violent exit.

801
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,880
But it had to be that way
because I had to evolve to the

802
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,080
next level, and the next level
was being a functioning member

803
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,520
of society.
Because what a lot of people

804
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,880
that know me now don't
understand is that is so hard

805
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,680
for me that they have no idea
how hard that is to be a

806
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,320
functioning member of society.
Because I don't think that way.

807
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,920
I don't want to be a robot at
the factory.

808
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:23,680
I don't want to be counted on to
do something at a certain moment

809
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,760
in time all the time.
Which to let my friend here know

810
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,680
why I'm so understanding when
he's got business and he's like,

811
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,760
I'm going to be 1/2 hour late or
I'm going to be an hour late.

812
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,240
I'm always like, whatever, dude,
man, whenever you're ready that,

813
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:40,640
you know, I allow for that time
because you have a different

814
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,880
life than I do.
And there's no reason to get

815
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,000
upset or mad about things that
are having no control.

816
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,120
I just appreciate that you
communicate with me.

817
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,840
That's all we need.
When you got communication, you

818
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:54,720
got everything.
Right.

819
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:56,040
Wait, man.
Why do you think I got into real

820
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,960
estate?
Right?

821
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,480
But why do you think I got into
real estate?

822
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,720
Real estate is never the same.
No client is the same.

823
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:06,760
No trajectory is the same.
I'm the same way, man.

824
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,880
I I I could not.
So reason I couldn't.

825
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,320
I couldn't finish or I didn't
finish school, which I just the

826
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,080
college.
I just.

827
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,760
I didn't.
I got tired of paying for

828
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,280
knowledge.
I'm like, this is fucked up.

829
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,280
Why do I have to pay for
knowledge?

830
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Knowledge should be free, you
know?

831
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,320
So I get that.
I'm not.

832
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,800
I'm not a nine to fiver either.
Never.

833
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,400
It never really was, you know, I
even when I worked in the group

834
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,720
homes, that was never the same.
That's why I like that job,

835
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:39,240
because every day was different.
Every single day was different,

836
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:42,440
man, 'cause you didn't know if
this guy was going to go off and

837
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,160
this guy was going to rip off
the fucking insulation from

838
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:46,640
water heater.
Was this guy going to lift the

839
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,840
birdbath in the backyard and
throw it over his head?

840
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,280
Was this guy going to punch this
guy?

841
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,200
It's just they were adults like
us, but mentally seven years old

842
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:57,280
and and it never was the same,
ever.

843
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,680
I mean just it was always
something that made that day

844
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,440
unique and that's why I like
that, because it just, it was

845
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,440
never mundane.
So I get exactly what you're

846
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,760
saying.
So big to thing that, the thing

847
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,840
that does it for me, I'll give a
shout out just in general to the

848
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,520
people that I've met there that
have become some of the most

849
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,040
hyper loyal friends I've ever
had in my life.

850
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,640
That's what makes it tolerable
is knowing at least there's

851
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:32,800
people you can commiserate with
and one of those people talk me

852
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,640
into doing this, or at least
attempting to do this and come

853
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,080
to find out.
I guess we're pretty good at it

854
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,720
because I keep getting a lot of
positive feedback and a lot less

855
00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:47,000
constructive criticism.
So I think we might be on to

856
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,840
something, and you and I usually
are.

857
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,120
That's because I it always
starts out rough around the

858
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,640
edges, you know, It's because he
moved his mic.

859
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,640
Yeah, everything.
That's what that's going to push

860
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,640
us over the top.
Yeah, everything, everything,

861
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,320
man.
Like, you know, first band

862
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:08,200
practice was, yeah, everything's
starts out rough, everything.

863
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,960
And I think that Harkins, back
to what you just said a minute

864
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:21,640
ago in that to bear your soul as
a creative artist, you do have

865
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,320
to start somewhere.
And the first asshole that says,

866
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,960
I don't know, man, the the
lighting's no good.

867
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,680
I'm like, what you got to start
somewhere, man, You know.

868
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,280
Well, I don't know if the sound
needs a little bit of yet.

869
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,920
We're working on that.
We're going to get there.

870
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,600
You start your podcast and I'll
constructively criticize you

871
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,440
too.
You know, I hear the same things

872
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,880
you hear.
I've been in the music sound

873
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,400
business.
I'm just talking to.

874
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,240
I'm just talking to the
constructive criticism, people I

875
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,640
know, not you.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

876
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:56,080
And.
And it was no, I know.

877
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:57,160
I.
Understood that some of the

878
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,400
most.
That's part of.

879
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,760
Oh, yeah, Well, that's all
that's that's how everything

880
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,120
evolves though, man.
Nothing.

881
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,160
The first the first poem I ever
wrote was in a high school

882
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,160
English class.
We had to write a ballot for

883
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,040
Mrs. Christensen's English class
and I I don't remember what,

884
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,520
what it was, but I got an A.
Like what the fuck?

885
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,520
I got an A, you know, like I
didn't put forth very much

886
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,960
effort to school, 'cause I
didn't like it.

887
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,160
I I had more fun in school.
I my buddy Todd and I, you know

888
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,800
Todd, we talked about him.
He and I weren't in it.

889
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,200
We weren't we weren't clicky.
So we knew everybody, man.

890
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,280
We hung out with the stoners and
the jocks and and the geeks, you

891
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,480
know, the social outcasts,
'cause we just we just had fun.

892
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,880
Like there wasn't, and it wasn't
anything that there's nothing

893
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,720
that he and I couldn't do in
high school because we didn't

894
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:55,720
give a shit.
It's that, that Tom Cruise line

895
00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:57,440
of Risky Business.
Sometimes you got to say what

896
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,200
the fuck, you're a geek.
I don't care if you, if you

897
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,720
were, if you were a nerd,
fucking help me with algebra,

898
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:05,440
man.
That was the approach.

899
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,240
Like, I didn't look at somebody,
you know, I had my moments

900
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,480
because we're all assholes at
certain times in high school, I

901
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,520
remember I was a Dick to this
dude that lived down the street

902
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,000
from me and and I I remember
that to this day.

903
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,760
He said hi to me and I thought I
was too cool for him and I

904
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:19,880
ignored him.
He said hi again.

905
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,360
I ignored him and he walked away
and I never felt good about that

906
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,240
my entire life.
And if I can ever, ever find

907
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,200
him, man, I would like straight
up apologize for being a Dick.

908
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,240
And it was just one of those
moments where I thought I was

909
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:34,120
better than somebody else and I
truly wasn't.

910
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,520
And it it's one of those little
things that just eat at your

911
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:41,040
soul and so out of my character
and so not who I am but.

912
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,640
For whatever he's made-up for
that a million times over.

913
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,960
Like a fucking asshole.
Oh, I know, but it's it's just

914
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,360
one of those things that, you
know, like that thing in the

915
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,640
back of your head is he got a
kill list, am I on his kill

916
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,680
list?
Which, which isn't really.

917
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,080
I mean, I doubt it because he's
very, really very good family,

918
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:02,560
very strong values and shit.
I just was an ass and I never I

919
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,640
never tried to do that with
anybody now and I never really

920
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,320
did that after that moment.
And I just it's just one of

921
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,480
those things man a little spot
and time and you.

922
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,320
I think that's the difference of
of of humanity.

923
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,560
The people that recognize that
little glitch in the matrix are

924
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,200
good humans.
The people that don't are the

925
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,920
ones that go down that dark path
and you know don't do anything

926
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,080
positive for the world.
And it's all, you know, me, me,

927
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,600
me.
You know, I agree what's right

928
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,520
for me type thing and I don't.
I don't.

929
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,840
Yeah, I just, you know, but
yeah, I think, I think, I think

930
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,600
going back to what we were
talking about, I think that

931
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,840
vulnerability comes through when
you get, when you get on the

932
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:51,120
path of recovery because you you
are opening up so many wounds,

933
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,400
right.
There's so many wounds.

934
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,920
There's so many people you
fractured along the way and

935
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,640
there's no way to remember
everybody you fractured because

936
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,240
it's almost impossible,
especially when you get to that

937
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,560
level of you're just, you know,
in your own world and it's like

938
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,960
you against the world and your
entire presence is about getting

939
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,000
high or for me, getting and I
never got drunk.

940
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,440
That's what kind of sucked.
For the most part.

941
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,920
I would get comfortably numb and
I had such a tolerance for.

942
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,320
The ones I'd get comfortable.
I'd go to sleep and I wouldn't

943
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,760
wake up with a yeah, and I'd
wake up.

944
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,440
I wouldn't wake up with a
hangover because for every six

945
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,080
pack I drank, I'd drink 44
ounces of water like so.

946
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:34,040
I always just being in Arizona,
man, you're just so conditioned

947
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:40,320
to drink water all the time, so
you know, suddenly woke up

948
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,600
hungover, you know?
Well, I can remember one night

949
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:49,600
in particular where I had
resigned myself to the fact that

950
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:54,880
I was never going to get well.
So I was just done and I

951
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,280
thought, I'm going to just, I'm
going to do as much shit as I

952
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,080
can do and I'm going to stay up
for as long as I can.

953
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,680
Stay up until I die.
Yeah.

954
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,000
My, I was not.
Apparently, that was not why I

955
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,240
was put here, because I I gave
it the old college try I was up

956
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:18,360
for.
I remember starting on a Sunday,

957
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:23,160
and I remember Saturday.
Yeah, I lost a day in there

958
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,920
somewhere, but yeah.
Wow.

959
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,600
I just kept going and going and
going, unbeknownst to anyone

960
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,040
else but me because once again,
I hit it well.

961
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,200
But that was my idea was I'm
like, you know, I'm done.

962
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,880
I just, it was too much
psychologically.

963
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,200
It was too much physically.
It was too much.

964
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,440
It was just too much.
I was done.

965
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,240
And then I was pissed at that.
Didn't work.

966
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:48,920
It's draining.
It's.

967
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,760
It's draining being right.
It's draining being an addict,

968
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,160
man, because all the shit you
have to hide.

969
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,760
I it just, I would hide, which
it wasn't really hidden.

970
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,680
I put a bottle of Jack and a
brown bag in the outdoor in the

971
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,640
garage freezer behind a bag of
ice.

972
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:06,720
You know, thinking I was being
slick.

973
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:10,440
She knew it was there.
I would hit her.

974
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,880
She had this sky vodka that
tasted like citrus and another

975
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,160
flavor.
And I would hit that, and then

976
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:20,720
genius that I am right, genius
that I was, I'd add water to it.

977
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,520
So, you know, long behold, we're
having a.

978
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,120
Party.
Weekend and you know pull all,

979
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,880
pull the vodka out of the
freezer like, hey Nikki, you

980
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,600
know why Why is this?
Why is this vodka frozen?

981
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:39,400
Man, you know just stupid shit
that that you don't think in

982
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,440
your head.
You're rationalizing.

983
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,880
Well, OK, if I if I do a couple
shots of this vodka, I got to

984
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,080
fill it back up with something
so she doesn't know I'm drinking

985
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,120
it.
Like, you know, I think about

986
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,560
the fact your pores are exuding
booze.

987
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,280
You know, you're sweating Jack
Daniels and Budweiser, but Nah,

988
00:55:55,480 --> 00:56:00,360
nobody's going to notice, man.
You know it's one of those.

989
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:05,720
It's just it's it's that's the
one thing I'll tell you when I

990
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:09,360
when I finally got sober, when I
was at a, when I was, you know,

991
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,440
I'd say, you know, a month away
from it, I hit that wall of just

992
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,760
exhaustion where I slept a lot,
you know, just I just slept and

993
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,720
I slept good and I slept through
the night because I was no

994
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,880
longer.
I was no longer withdrawing.

995
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,120
For the most part.
I still had those urges.

996
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,280
Like every day for years, man,
3:00 would come up and then my

997
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,320
mouth would start salivating
because that's when I'd get

998
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,800
home, because that's where I had
to start taking care of the

999
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,760
kids.
And I'd hit.

1000
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,120
I'd hit.
This is going to sound bad, but

1001
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:43,600
I'd hit from the freezer, Jack.
I'd mouthful of that, go Polish

1002
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,920
off 3 beers, finish whatever I
had to do before she took off.

1003
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,680
And I kind of took control of
everything about 5:00.

1004
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,800
And I, you know, I'd been
drinking for two hours, you

1005
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,240
know, but I wasn't.
I wasn't out of control.

1006
00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:00,360
I was because I had such a
tolerance that I just survived,

1007
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:01,680
you know, and everything was
fun.

1008
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,040
I was fun, Dad, you know.
And that was my problem.

1009
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,800
You know, until the bitter end,
I just maintained all the time,

1010
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:14,960
you know, I can hang with the
best of them.

1011
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,280
And the problem is, is I was
partying with the day shift and

1012
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:23,360
the night shift and that's where
Speed became your best friend

1013
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,280
was, you know, I had AI had a
group of people I was supposed

1014
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,000
to be working with, and then I
had a group of people that I was

1015
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,720
supposed to be putting a band
together with.

1016
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,800
So I'm going all day and all
night, and you can only do that

1017
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,120
for so long before it grabs you
and won't let you go.

1018
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,160
And that's a brutal addiction.
You know, that's that's not

1019
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,760
something you're just that's the
other thing is I'm lucky I

1020
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,040
survived the recovery because I
just quit, man.

1021
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,200
And I got super sick for a long
time.

1022
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,760
I wasn't sure I was going to.
Make it through that.

1023
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:04,680
I think it it, I think it speaks
a lot volumes of your character

1024
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:06,800
and your will to just stop on a
dime.

1025
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,080
Because I stopped on a dime too,
like just ripped it off like a

1026
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,640
bandit.
I knew I had to stop, so I

1027
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:12,680
stopped.
I did the same.

1028
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,200
Thing I have amazing willpower,
man.

1029
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,520
I don't remember what year.
Yeah, well, that's what I'm

1030
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:19,440
saying.
So it's it's just you reached

1031
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,920
that moment where you know,
that's the thing for people that

1032
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,560
listen to this you cannot tell
an addict to stop.

1033
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,520
They won't listen to you.
They will put up their defenses.

1034
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,920
They'll build a wall and that
wall will keep you from being

1035
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,560
able to penetrate and get
through to them at any other

1036
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,160
time in the future.
So you just.

1037
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:39,800
They will not talk to you
anymore.

1038
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,040
You have to listen to them, You
have to talk to, right?

1039
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,800
So best advice is you love them,
you listen to them, You have

1040
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,240
conversations with them, You
don't enable them, don't give

1041
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,160
them if you know, don't give
them money, don't give them

1042
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:55,840
access to booze and shit like
that.

1043
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,760
You just, whatever their demon
is, just be there for them.

1044
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:02,120
And eventually they will come
around you and they will start

1045
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,040
opening that can of worms that
you know, oh, I had a shitty

1046
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,520
day.
I woke up, you know, felt like

1047
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,000
crap because of da da, da da da
da.

1048
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,120
That's your invitation to start
talking.

1049
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,080
That's your invitation to start
having a dialogue without

1050
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,280
pointing fingers.
It's a it's a slippery slope and

1051
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,840
it's hard to do.
Nikki could tell a complete

1052
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,680
stranger slash regular, you've
had too much.

1053
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,840
And they would listen to her.
She'd cut them off back, then

1054
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,720
call them a cab.
They go home from the bar.

1055
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,520
She probably told me till she's
blue in the face.

1056
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,160
You drink too much, right?
You know you're blue in the

1057
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:35,440
face.
You you drink too much.

1058
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:36,880
You drink too much.
I'm fucking fine.

1059
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,120
You'd have no idea what you're
talking about.

1060
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,600
I've only had three.
Well, I really had 10, you know,

1061
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,160
it's just, you know, you don't.
You lose counting.

1062
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:50,880
Alcoholics are great at
counting, but they they count

1063
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,120
the alcoholic way.
So you know, they lose track

1064
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,920
after about 3 and then that
seems to be the magic number as

1065
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,680
they continue drinking for the
evening.

1066
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,080
Well, I've only had three
because that's the last thing

1067
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,360
you remember having, you know?
It's.

1068
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:09,800
Pretty slow man.
Don't do it.

1069
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,600
Just you.
Just don't do it if you for.

1070
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,800
The listening audience at home
that's playing along with the

1071
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:22,320
Mike is a recovering addict and
he's always drinking and talking

1072
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,200
about smoking pot.
I don't have a problem with

1073
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,200
either one of those, in case
you're concerned.

1074
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:33,000
And nobody loves life more than
I do, and nobody at this moment

1075
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:37,080
in time, and nobody is happier
to be doing a podcast with

1076
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,280
somebody that he called his
brother and shared the stage

1077
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,480
over 1000 times with.
I love life, man.

1078
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,960
And I have rules.
So like during the week and

1079
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,600
anybody that knows me on a level
that you do now, that live, that

1080
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,960
lives around me, that knows me,
they know that I have serious

1081
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,920
rules.
Like during the week I'm

1082
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,640
drinking this beer right here
and I'm going to have one with

1083
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,840
my dinner and that's it.
I'm done.

1084
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,440
And I never deviate from that
unless it's a Saturday night and

1085
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,240
I'm out at the bar and you know,
2-3 times a year I might go

1086
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:19,480
crazy, but on a regular basis I
I just started to realize that I

1087
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,640
like catching a buzz, but I
don't like feeling like shit.

1088
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:29,600
So the same 180 switch that
flipped in you and I, that

1089
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:34,360
caused us to get well, it
almost.

1090
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,720
I had that same kind of epiphany
where like, you know, I like

1091
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,800
feeling this way.
So why don't I get to that point

1092
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,040
and not ever do any more?
Because there's no reason to do

1093
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,640
more.
More leads to bad things, right?

1094
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,520
I learned how to have fun with
it.

1095
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:51,440
That's what I'm getting.
It's.

1096
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,880
Kind of like that thing.
Yeah.

1097
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,160
Yeah, it's it's, yeah, I get,
it's like that's, you know,

1098
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,200
nothing good happens after 10:00
at night when you're on the

1099
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:01,840
road.
Correct.

1100
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,040
You know, nothing good if you
leave in their house at 10:00.

1101
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,440
That's way too fucking late.
It's nothing's good's going to

1102
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:12,680
happen that night, you know.
You know when you know when mom

1103
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,800
slash K listens to this, She's
going to love you because she

1104
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,040
always said nothing good happens
after midnight.

1105
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,440
So now she's going to say, oh,
well, you know what Big world,

1106
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:28,120
famous rock star legend, singer
of Nemesis says nothing good

1107
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,320
happens after 10:00.
Kids, it's your ass home.

1108
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,280
It's your ass home 10:00.
Oh yeah, she'll love that.

1109
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:41,800
If yeah, yeah, you know,
especially if you're just

1110
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,400
leaving the house.
Like, what the fuck?

1111
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,560
Why you just leaving the house
at 10:00?

1112
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:49,720
You know Jake does that shit.
But you know he he has a

1113
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:50,840
purpose.
He's going.

1114
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,880
We know where he's going.
He's not going when he's in

1115
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,040
town, obviously he's on leave.
He's just going to friends, you

1116
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,120
know, He's not going out and
he's got to go out, out like he

1117
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,160
went when he was here.
He went to downtown Scottsdale a

1118
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,520
couple times with his buddies
with, you know, that's like 6-7

1119
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:06,320
o'clock.
They leave.

1120
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,760
You know, they're going out, you
know.

1121
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:13,680
But yeah, unless, unless, unless
you have a purpose to leave the

1122
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,320
house After 10, nothing good
happens.

1123
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,320
After 10, you know, you could,
you know, I'd rather be home and

1124
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,040
be naked with my wife.
Just saying.

1125
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:27,360
Well, you know, given that
option, but I will say, when I

1126
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,320
was Jake's age, I was probably
out till four or five.

1127
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,360
Yeah, we didn't get done
playing.

1128
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,400
We didn't get done playing gigs
till 1:00 in the morning,

1129
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,320
sometimes 2.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1130
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,440
And the only reason I would
leave is because I had, we had

1131
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,040
Sky.
So, you know, I had to get up,

1132
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,320
you know?
Yeah, and then from.

1133
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,920
Getting in a lot of more trouble
I think.

1134
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,920
And then Scott had to go home,
'cause he had Carrie and the

1135
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,240
kids, and then Rick had to go
home, 'cause he had Carrie.

1136
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,920
And then Mike met a bunch of
interesting people that he will

1137
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,120
entertain you with stories on
future podcasts about what he

1138
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,440
did when he left them.
Shows cause.

1139
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,960
Yep.
I ended up in some crazy

1140
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:16,960
situations.
I yeah yeah look at so next

1141
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,160
podcast we're going to talk
about one of we're going to have

1142
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,320
a conversation about mice crazy
situation.

1143
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,400
You think about a good crazy
situation for next.

1144
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:25,680
Next show I'll.
Think of a good one.

1145
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,600
Yeah, for.
All right.

1146
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:29,000
Cool.
What?

1147
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,360
Do you got for your top 11 list
buddy?

1148
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:37,480
Let's talk about.
I have top 11 go back top

1149
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:41,360
where'd you go?
Where's Mike Michaels top eleven

1150
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,520
female rock band and or artists
so and the reason why I say band

1151
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,200
because there's there's girl
there's all girl bands like the

1152
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,240
Runaways is one of my top
because it's the Runaways they

1153
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:59,240
have to be all female band which
which which gave us which gave

1154
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,480
us some of my single women
artists.

1155
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,760
Lita Ford and Joan Jett.
Joan Jett, right.

1156
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,680
I don't remember.
I don't know who else is in that

1157
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:12,120
band, but those two, Those two
went on and had very successful

1158
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,760
solo projects for females for
sure.

1159
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:20,000
Yes, they did.
Then we have Pat Benatar, Love

1160
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,080
Pat Benatar.
You know, Pat Benatar was the, I

1161
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,280
think, the third video MTV ever
played.

1162
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,760
I do.
I think it.

1163
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,920
Was promises in the I think it
was Promises in the Dark love.

1164
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,440
I love female voices, man.
They have me too.

1165
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,240
Women's singers are so
underrated on a whole, but they

1166
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,720
have such a dynamic range and
they they can get the like I I

1167
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,400
really like right now, like a
couple bands in this moment and

1168
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,480
Hailstorm.
Hailstorm's been around.

1169
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,080
A while in this moment just came
out a a few a few years ago.

1170
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,880
I just discovered them a couple
years ago but their voices are

1171
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:55,560
just.
I could just listen to their

1172
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,800
their music all the time because
it's just the voice, man.

1173
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,640
I'm being a singer.
I'm drawn with lyrics and I'm

1174
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,120
drawn with voice.
I'm drawn with with the range

1175
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:09,720
and and just as weird as it
sounds, I've all just if to be a

1176
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,280
female singer like Eddie Van
Halen wanted.

1177
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,600
Patti Smite from Scandal when
David left.

1178
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:18,080
Remember that.
I do remember.

1179
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,680
Champion to get Patti Smite in
the band, Yeah, because the

1180
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,800
dynamic that she would have
brought to the table and the

1181
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,480
range she would have brought to
the table.

1182
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:30,600
You just hit the dynamics.
And the range, Yeah, yeah.

1183
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,720
And I think Sammy was a good fit
after that because Sammy had

1184
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:37,960
such a better range than Dave
will ever even attempt to have.

1185
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,640
Sammy's range was like a chick
for sure.

1186
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:42,880
He hit some high fucking.
Notes, Right.

1187
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:44,920
That's what I'm saying.
It was Eddie.

1188
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,160
Eddie.
Found his chick and Sammy Heck.

1189
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,200
Logical choice.
Yeah, right.

1190
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,000
Exactly.
Hey we got a check for the.

1191
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,400
And I don't think Van Halen
would have been, yeah, I don't

1192
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,880
think Van Van Halen would have
been Van Halen had Patty Smite

1193
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,360
joined, you know?
So I'm sure David Lee Roth,

1194
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:04,840
Yeah.
Yeah.

1195
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,880
And David Lee Roth and Wolfgang,
you know, David's being an ass,

1196
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,440
you know, like he always is.
But I read this this article

1197
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,680
from Blabbermouth about how Dave
basically thinks Wolfgang's a

1198
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,040
piece of shit and Wolfgang's
like, you know, basically saying

1199
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,280
fuck you dude.
Like, I'm not releasing

1200
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,600
anything.
I'm not doing anything of of my

1201
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:24,160
dad's stuff because it's not up
to me.

1202
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,280
And it came to light in this
interview that Alex is the one.

1203
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:29,640
Yeah, he's Alex.
Is the business.

1204
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:33,040
According I read that anyway.
Like he's the business of the

1205
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:33,880
Yeah.
OK.

1206
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,600
So he's the That surprised me
that Alex was the business of

1207
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:38,240
the band.
Why?

1208
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:39,320
Would that surprise you know?
What?

1209
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,280
I mean like I wouldn't have
expected that at I because I

1210
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:43,800
just.
I wouldn't have expected it.

1211
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:45,320
I would.
Have It's the brothers, man.

1212
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,520
I would have thought him and
Eddie were kind of, well, that's

1213
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:49,800
what I'm saying.
I would have thought the two

1214
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,360
headed monster were completely
in control, but the way Wolfgang

1215
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:53,960
spun, that was it was always.
Alex.

1216
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:54,960
Eddie.
Always Alex.

1217
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,000
Eddie wouldn't want it.
Michael did his thing.

1218
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:00,640
Yeah, right.
Dave did his thing.

1219
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,080
Then Sammy did his thing and
Alex was the one that drove the

1220
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:05,160
band.
He's he's like the nonsense I

1221
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,560
had to do in the band.
Just like Lars did for

1222
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,200
Metallica.
Put the shows together right, It

1223
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,400
just it's just those.
I wasn't expecting it, I guess.

1224
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,479
I did all that shit in the
beginning, too, man.

1225
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,160
But it was like I didn't want to
do any of that.

1226
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,240
So I eventually hired Dave
Glazer as our manager.

1227
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,040
I I didn't want to book all them
fucking gigs and handle money

1228
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,200
and fuck all that.
I want to play guitar.

1229
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,720
Well, well, I know I.
Know.

1230
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,640
Just like we'll hire ACFO when
Spotify offers us $100 million

1231
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:38,640
to do this right?
Right, right.

1232
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:39,800
OK.
Yeah.

1233
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,040
So who do you got for your, Was
that all of them?

1234
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:48,479
I think I had Joan Jett, Pat
Benatar, the Runaways leader 4,

1235
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:53,680
Janis Joplin, you mentioned
heart which I don't know how I

1236
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,960
fucking even think of heart and
and Nancy Wilson, I mean they

1237
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:01,840
talk about pioneers like
pioneers and and you know and

1238
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:06,640
they've been the Runaways, you
know I think open up a lot for

1239
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,840
for for female musicians
especially in the rock world.

1240
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,800
I mean, you have all the pop
stuff, but we're not talking

1241
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,600
about pop because that's a whole
another genre.

1242
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:17,760
They definitely opened a lot of
doors.

1243
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,080
In the top 11 because that's,
that's because that's six,

1244
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,080
right, that's, that's and
there's no specific order at all

1245
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:31,200
but it was, it was the Runaways,
the Runaways, Pat Benatar, Joan

1246
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,319
Jett, Lita Ford Hart, Janis
Choppa.

1247
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:36,960
So that's six.
What about like throw?

1248
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,359
Into this top 11 in no
particular order.

1249
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:46,960
What about Stevie Nicks?
Yeah, I get you have to you have

1250
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,279
to do Stevie Nicks.
She's rock Fleetwood Mac.

1251
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:50,760
I mean she's not.
She's not.

1252
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,479
Well, yeah.
Because then she did solo,

1253
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,840
right.
She did do solo after doing

1254
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,040
after doing Fleetwood Mac.
So yeah, I would say that she's

1255
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,240
got a very, a very unique voice
you know Stevie Nicks when you

1256
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:02,800
hear it, there's no mistaking
that.

1257
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,600
So she's she's put her, she's
put her stamp on the industry

1258
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,720
for sure.
And you made sure to mention

1259
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:10,400
Janis Tapplin in there too,
right?

1260
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,520
OK, so my OK she's.
The only one I can think of from

1261
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:19,320
the 60s.
So since Janice is on the list,

1262
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:22,640
I'm going to mention an old one
and a new one.

1263
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,400
So, Grace Slick, OK.
OK, right.

1264
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,840
Oh yeah.
And tied in with grace.

1265
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,440
Or was it Jefferson?
Yeah.

1266
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:37,040
It was Jefferson Airplane back
then, when they became silly, it

1267
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,360
was Jefferson Starship.
No, no, no, no, no.

1268
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,480
No, it was Starship.
Yeah, yeah.

1269
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:44,000
By the way, what?
Other way.

1270
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:46,800
Fuck, I don't know.
Now you got me confused.

1271
01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:48,920
Anyway, I.
Don't have it?

1272
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:50,080
No, it's all good.
Just.

1273
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,760
They they were they were cool
with Grace, Slick and the dude.

1274
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:56,600
I can't think of his name
either.

1275
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,200
Anyway, 70s cool.
Mickey.

1276
01:10:59,200 --> 01:10:59,720
Thomas.
Mickey.

1277
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:01,880
Yes, Mickey Thomas.
Thank you.

1278
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:07,960
Yes, 70's cool. 80's not cool.
Yeah, another band.

1279
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:09,800
Exactly.
That is not the same as

1280
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,640
Hailstorm, but they're a newer
band that you should check out

1281
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:17,280
is The Pretty Reckless.
I love their stuff.

1282
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:21,440
OK, so that's that's Taylor.
Mom's one that I mentioned.

1283
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,800
Yeah, yeah.
OK.

1284
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,360
Yeah, that's OK.
I'll check you'll like them.

1285
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,160
Good grooving music.
Man.

1286
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:34,760
And I I remember that.
I, I, yeah, I remember I I

1287
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:36,760
mentioned Evanescence when we
were chatting about that

1288
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:38,680
texting.
And that's another great one.

1289
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:41,600
It's a female vocalist, right?
Yeah.

1290
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:42,440
Yeah.
Amy.

1291
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:43,960
Amy Lee, right?
Yep.

1292
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:45,840
Amy Lee.
I think that's her name.

1293
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:46,840
Yes.
Yeah.

1294
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:47,560
That's her.
Yeah.

1295
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:49,920
So that's, what, 10?
Is that 1011?

1296
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:56,520
Yeah, so we got we got Janis
Joplin, a Grace Slick, Pat

1297
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,760
Benatar.
Runaways, Lita Ford, Joan Jett,

1298
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:04,000
Stevie Nicks, Anna, Nancy Wilson
slash Hart.

1299
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:07,320
What am I missing?
There's 8.

1300
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,480
Taylor Momsen, Which is The
Pretty Reckless.

1301
01:12:11,480 --> 01:12:13,400
Oh yeah, The Pretty Pretty
Reckless, right.

1302
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,200
Pretty Reckless.
So we got two more to round out

1303
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:20,680
this 11.
Early rock'n'roll would be Linda

1304
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,240
Ronstadt.
Yeah, yeah.

1305
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,800
Oh, Oh, yeah.
You're no good.

1306
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:28,240
Yeah, we talked about that a
couple weeks ago.

1307
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,920
Where the the her.
Her backing band was the Eagles.

1308
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,360
Correct.
Got Throw her with the Eagles.

1309
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:35,080
Yeah.
Linda Ronstadt.

1310
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:36,920
Yeah.
What about Tanya Tucker?

1311
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,440
She was kind of, she was comfy,
but she kind of ended up being

1312
01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:43,720
mainstream, you know?
If we were going to go that.

1313
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,760
Mainstream.
And she had that bad girl aside

1314
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:47,880
to her.
If we were going to go that far

1315
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,320
out in left field, I would give
Carol King an honorary mention

1316
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,400
just because she's so cool.
Or Karen Carpenter.

1317
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,160
Karen Carpenter.
Yeah, that's true, Karen.

1318
01:12:57,800 --> 01:12:59,800
There you go.
Oh, the Mamas and the Papas from

1319
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:01,280
the 60s.
Oh, there you go.

1320
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,800
That's a good one, Chick.
Yeah, yeah.

1321
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,200
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

1322
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:10,440
There you go.
That's it.

1323
01:13:10,440 --> 01:13:14,320
We got top. 11 female slash
vocalist bands.

1324
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,480
We got there, right?
Yeah, we got there.

1325
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:20,240
That's, you know, it's because
it's what we do.

1326
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:24,240
It ain't always pretty, but it
works.

1327
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,120
This is, it's not.
This is the Christian Mike show.

1328
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:29,920
He's the guitar guy.
I'm the guy in shades.

1329
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,880
And for those of you don't
realize it, just look at that

1330
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:34,760
backwards And this says the
exact same thing.

1331
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,200
And since I don't have my
contacts and I can't see it.

1332
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,040
Exactly.
So next show you're going to

1333
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,320
come up with one of your post
show adventures and you're going

1334
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:47,840
to we're going to lead with that
story.

1335
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,320
Right on, man.
I like story time.

1336
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,840
I like story time.
We can do lots of.

1337
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:55,120
Stories.
Cool.

1338
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,800
Good show.
Absolutely.

1339
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:58,880
Everybody, thank you for
listening.

1340
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,080
Continue following us and I I
still got, I still got to get

1341
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,200
stuff uploaded to YouTube.
I haven't done that, so I'll

1342
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:09,200
work on that.
And I apologize, I had no idea

1343
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:12,920
that it was going to be the same
deal as it is right now.

1344
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:17,720
I had like APTSD moment.
When I saw six hours and 15

1345
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:21,280
minutes or something, I was
like, holy shit, I have the

1346
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,600
slowest upload connection.
Because I download.

1347
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:27,840
Yeah.
What's what's weird is I

1348
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:30,160
downloaded them and I said it
would Alert me when they

1349
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:33,240
download it to the e-mail, but I
never, I never got an e-mail

1350
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,600
saying it was downloaded.
So I don't know if it if I

1351
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,240
download it to your e-mail
because I access Riverside

1352
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,520
through your account.
Oh yeah, they do come to my

1353
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:47,120
e-mail.
So if you want to forward to me

1354
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:48,760
and I'll try that and see if
that works.

1355
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,840
No, you need to download them to
your desktop.

1356
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:54,680
I'm going to get.
All it does is send me a message

1357
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,840
that you downloaded it.
I don't.

1358
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,440
I don't get the download, it
just sends me a message.

1359
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:05,200
So you want to you want to click
on the exported file and

1360
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,280
download it to your desktop and
then upload it back to YouTube.

1361
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,080
You get that, kids.
This is the technical side of

1362
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:18,240
the Chris and Mike Show.
Again, thanks for listening.

1363
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,240
Thanks for following us on all
the socials.

1364
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:22,680
Tell your friends.
Share with your friends.

1365
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,760
Be kind to each other.
Tell your friend absolutely.

1366
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,840
Everyone love each other.
You're not alone.

1367
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:31,680
And you're not.
You have struggles, you're

1368
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,240
struggling, that kind of jazz.
You just reach out.

1369
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:36,760
If not us, somebody close to you
that's not going to be

1370
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:39,680
judgmental, asshole, OK?
Until next week.

1371
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:41,680
Don't be afraid to be
vulnerable.

1372
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,480
Yeah, until next week.
See you later, Mike Michaels.

1373
01:15:48,000 --> 01:16:30,320
Peace, brother,
The None.